Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

Im giving a very tired, no it isnt. The reasons have been posted on u75 and on the SP website.

My conclusion is
a/ you dont understand industrial workers
and
b/.you havent a clue how as a socialist you are meant to work amongst industrial workers

For b/ read how the SP are doing it , and Im not a SP member!!
You simply do not understand that the strike is explicitly aimed at giving preferential treatment to British workers over foreigners.

Reporter: What will actually get you back to work?

Strike leader (?): Fair play, and a level playing field as regards access to jobs on this site is concerned . . . .

Reporter: If someone came out and said if X percentage of jobs at this refinery and others go to British workers would that be enough to end this dispute?

SL: I believe the protesters would like to have access to the jobs and when all local labour and all local skilled labour has been exhausted then they should move further afield. The last resort should be to employ European labour.


I was an industrial worker for years. I've argued unpopular shit in difficult circumstances and I know when so-called socialists have bottled it
 
Im giving a very tired, no it isnt.
As this is an unofficial strike, not technically supported by the Unions, the only people in a position to say what this strike is or is not about are the workers at Lindsey. Seems like there is a lot of opportunism going on here, from the far left to the far right. The far left want the strike to be about preventing undercutting labour standards (of which the UK has some of the lowest in the EU ironically!), and the far right want the strike to be about anti-immigration/protectionism.

If the Italians are being hired on worse terms and conditions to the British workers, because of the Posted Workers Directive, then the left win and should be supported...

If the Italians are being hired on the same terms and conditions as the British workers then the far right win and those supporting the strike for "left" reasons have scored a spectacular own goal!

There is a mass movement going on and everyone wants to harness it for their own ends...it all comes down to what the workers at Lindsay say they want, and nobody else...
 
You simply do not understand that the strike is explicitly aimed at giving preferential treatment to British workers over foreigners.

"SL: I believe the protesters would like to have access to the jobs and when all local labour and all local skilled labour has been exhausted then they should move further afield. The last resort should be to employ European labour."

but the simple mistake you are making is shown in your language about 'foreigners'

.. look at your sentance and then the SL sentance you qoute .. they are actually entirely differrent

there are VERY differrent implications

.. yours is of racism and zenophobia and of being negative and against forigners

the SL sentance says nothing of the sort .. there is NO loaded language in the SL sentance as there is in yours .. it simply says the company should employ people locally B4 they employ people abroad ..

all the racism/zenophobia is in your head re this qoute

as MC5 now states it is clear to everyone WHY this ( and almost all similar ) company employs abroad rather than locally
 
You simply do not understand that the strike is explicitly aimed at giving preferential treatment to British workers over foreigners.
That is the impression one gets from the news reports (saw Channel 4 earlier and it was the same as the BBC, probably worse than what you posted). However, you need to be careful of listening to three or four people's comments and applying them to hundreds - it is worrying tho if that is applicable to the rest of the strike force.

One other impression I get as well, tho, is that the workers seem to be under the impression that the Italians are to be employed on worse terms and conditions than the British workers. That would suggest they are striking not for "British jobs for British people", but to prevent undercutting of labour standards.

But it does beg where they got that information from considering all we have "officially" is a statement from Total saying the Italians are on the same terms/conditions. Maybe they just assumed it?
 
as MC5 now states it is clear to everyone WHY this ( and almost all similar ) company employs abroad rather than locally
Ah but it doesn't explain why they would hire Italians and not Latvians, and it doesn't explain how any British company ever wins a contract in an EU country!
 
Front page of Socialist worker attacks the strikers, wonder how many that will sell this week

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/graphics/2009/2137/issue2137.pdf


Their headline is:

Blame the bosses not 'foreign workers'​

I disagree with the Social Workers' silly PC scare quotes around the phrase foreign workers - as if there were something wrong in calling foreign workers foreign workers!

But, apart from that, I agree with the headline. Of course we should blame the employers, not the Italian and Portuguese workers.

I'd like to think that the Social Workers will have the sense to come down on the side of the strikers and protesters, despite their not liking all the slogans used.

If they don't, I suppose they can always fuck off back to the mosques, but they have not had much luck there either, have they? Poor old Social Workers!
 
but the simple mistake you are making is shown in your language about 'foreigners'
I wonder who said this?
so you support using foreigners for cheap labour too!!!?? bloody hell .. child of migranst supports cheap labour system

where have i said closing the borders? i support open borders too .. i also support the bosses being strung up for using cheap migrant labour when all the black ( and other ) kids around here are unemployed .. clearly you do not give a fuck about them

"the bosses will continue .. blah blah blah" .. hey ho you don't think things can get better??? so lets just keep the old cheap labour system?? ..
clue
 
bus.jpg
 
Of course not. But they had a choice - fight for jobs for all or fight for jobs for Brits. They've chosen the latter, as the video interview makes plain
The thing is there is an official narrative here. It basically says: "Oh dear, you don't want to start messing with this stuff. That would be protectionism, and that's bad - it's against free trade, which is good for all of us. And it's especially bad when labour does it. We need to stay competitive, and cut costs, and that'll be good for everyone. Trust us. So what well do is this. We'll call you xenophobes. That way, the liberal media will turn against you, and we'll have divided the working class and turned it in on itself."

We can either buy into that, and pick up on those voices from within the strike that the media chooses to accentuate and distort, and use that as a reason not to support the strike. Or we can see the broader picture: that this is an issue as old as the trades union movement itself. And in those early years, the answer was - make sure everyone is unionised, build solidarity with migrant workers.

Now, you will never achieve either aim if you tell the strikers that their case is off the scale and they have no leg to stand on. And perhaps more to the point, the bosses will have won: the working class will be divided, and pay and conditions will be undercut.
 
Do you support a strike where the stated aim, as expressed by one of its leaders is: "The last resort should be to employ European labour."?

Why?

you have repeated yourself for several pages now with this quote.

when you started out you weren't sure that the guy was a strike leader, and put a question mark in there because there is actually no evidence that he is a strike leader in that clip.

have you got evidence that he is now or are you just pulling a fast one?
 
you have repeated yourself for several pages now with this quote.

when you started out you weren't sure that the guy was a strike leader, and put a question mark in there because there is actually no evidence that he is a strike leader in that clip.

have you got evidence that he is now or are you just pulling a fast one?
No fast one. Just a failure to put a ? after every mention of this guy.

He basically says exactly the same as is in the mass meeting approved list of strike demands doesn't he?
 
We can either buy into that, and pick up on those voices from within the strike that the media chooses to accentuate and distort
What, like the demands of the strikers that the union 'nominate' 'locally skilled' labour for future work? How is that picking on something that's accentutated and distorted?
 
BBC news today spent 10 minutes describing and reporting on how the Great Snow Tragedy was unfolding, and a scant 2-3 minutes on the reporting of the strikes. Finger on the pulse of the zietgiest eh
 
Can you provide any sources that show this is the case? Any quotes from bodies on the ground showing that they are not striking for the "wrong" reasons?

a) Evidence of distortion:

-

Creative editing of quotation to fit the "racism" narrative.

(See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/03/race-bbc ).

- repeated headlining the strike as "protests against Italian workers". (No, it's protests against the actions of bosses).

b) These are the demands adopted by the Lindsey Oil Refinery construction strikers at a mass meeting on 2 February:

* No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.

* All workers in UK to be covered by NAECI Agreement.

* Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available.

* Government and employer investment in proper training/apprenticeships for new generation of construction workers - fight for a future for young people.

* All Immigrant labour to be unionised.

* Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - including interpreters - and access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members.

* Build links with construction trade unions on the continent.

* Re-instatement of [victimised worker] John McKewan


(John Monks, general secretary of the European Trade Union Confederation, said the Lindsey refinery dispute was typical of problems that had become apparent across the EU where workers were employed outside their home country.

The issue arose in Britain because UK law requires foreign workers to be employed only in line with minimum legal conditions, rather than on the same pay and conditions as homegrown staff in the same jobs, said Monks. This meant that workers from countries where pay and conditions were less favourable were able to undercut British workers, and European law deemed that any attempt by unions to enforce the same conditions would breach directives on the free movement of labour. http://www.etuc.org/a/5795)
 
What, like the demands of the strikers that the union 'nominate' 'locally skilled' labour for future work? How is that picking on something that's accentutated and distorted?

The work being done now is being done by sub-sub contractors who did not even consider for the work skilled labour from the site recently in receipt of 90 day notices, but brought in their own staff, on pay and conditions we must assume undercut the going rate. Simple question. Yes or no. Is that acceptable?
 
The work being done now is being done by sub-sub contractors who did not even consider for the work skilled labour from the site recently in receipt of 90 day notices, but brought in their own staff, on pay and conditions we must assume undercut the going rate. Simple question. Yes or no. Is that acceptable?
Why must we assume the rate has been undercut? What's the evidence?

But assuming it is, my answer to your question is 'No'. What should the response be? Strike for equal rates or strike for jobs for local/British workers before Europeans?
 
OK.

So now what? Wring our hands that anger is sometimes expressed in ways we're maybe uncomfortable with? Or fight the bosses and their unacceptable actions?
Do the latter. By going to the strikers and arguing that the strike's demands to favour local workers are clearly and publically repudiated and a new offensive - that makes serious fraternal overtures to the Italian workers - and gets everyone out to defend and extend jobs for all
 
Back
Top Bottom