Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[Pickman's model]

Over the decades (particularly the early 90s) coordinated gangs of youths used to come to Brixton to do mob criminality at the various events at Brockwell Park because, if you want to do steaming or grab-and-flee crime, crowds are good places.

There were 80 reported assaults in Cologne (not the 'hundreds' of the OP). In London, there were 50 arrests on New Years' Eve and one rape.

Last Carnival, there were 400 arrests over the weekend. Presumably, most of those would have been of black people.

the number of reported assaults will clearly be below the number of actual assaults; dky you think the number of arrests in london at carnival has any bearing on anything.

 

[hot air baboon]

From the text under the not very enlightening video : ( which appears to be copy-pasta from Breitbart fwiw )

So far, police have identified 80 victims of the gangs, 35 of which were subjected to sex attacks. Others were assaulted or robbed. Officers suspect there are many more as of yet unreported cases from the night, and are appealing for victims to come forward after their ordeals.

A press conference hosted by Cologne’s chief of police Wolfgang Albers this afternoon confirmed the attacks had been perpetrated by migrants, all of whom were found to be carrying official immigration paperwork by police officers at the time.

 

[Opera Buffa]

Independent are covering it

 

[andysays]

I've only just seen this thread and read the BBC piece linked to, but perhaps this quote (from near the end) is worth highlighting

A policeman who was outside Cologne station during the New Year's Eve trouble told the city's Express news website that he had detained eight suspects. "They [meaning the eight people he personally detained, rather than all those taking part, presumably] were all asylum seekers, carrying copies of their residence certificates," he said.

However, there was no official confirmation that asylum seekers had been involved in the violence. Commentators in Germany were quick to urge people not to jump to conclusions.

It's a terrible thing to have happened, but maybe we here can try not to make it even worse by jumping to conclusions or passing judgement based on misconstruing what has been reported

 

[not-bono-ever]

can someone tell me what i am supposed to be looking at in the videos posted? the indie one is unwatchable

 

[Brainaddict]

glad you're able to declare without a shadow of a doubt what was going on on the basis of one brief video

I hedged with the word 'seems', then said wait and see. I was also making my guess based not just on the video, but on the fact the right-wing propagated version of events doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I'm surprised you can't see it.

By mentioning the alleged race of the attackers--apparently on the basis of their "appearance"--the media are inculcating the idea of a causal relation between their race and the crime. People will conclude that they attacked the women because they are North African.

And if you can't see why that's racist, you're beyond my help.

Is the woman who described her attackers as of north African/Arab appearance who spoke no English or German a racist? The victim of a sexual assault? All three? None of the above? Fuck knows why you do this.

This is horrific and the wider implications are worrying.

 

[Treacle Toes]

A video:

No way to watch that vid with such a fucking stupid caption on it...

 

[Pickman's model]

I hedged with the word 'seems', then said wait and see. I was also making my guess based not just on the video, but on the fact the right-wing propagated version of events doesn't make a lot of sense.

please don't guess about things like this, it devalues your opinion and trivialises a serious subject

 

[krtek a houby]

Is there? Is it racist to describe the men as "Arab or North African appearance"?

http://metrogees.myfastforum.org/TA_DAAA__about5761.html

How about here? Is the poster being racist?


"that's what happens when you allow in thousands of young men from muslim countries who don't know how to interact decently with women."

Or here?

"It's not bigoted to be disgusted by these animals attacking women.

And you want more and more of them to be allowed to roam freely throughout Europe."

 

[Pickman's model]

http://metrogees.myfastforum.org/TA_DAAA__about5761.html

How about here? Is the poster being racist?


"that's what happens when you allow in thousands of young men from muslim countries who don't know how to interact decently with women."

Or here?

"It's not bigoted to be disgusted by these animals attacking women.

And you want more and more of them to be allowed to roam freely throughout Europe."

you know what editor thinks about board wars. so why are you linking to a forum and slagging it off?

 

[frogwoman]

People who say this shit are not going to be enlightened souls who become brainwashed by one news article

 

[Pickman's model]

People who say this shit are not going to be enlightened souls who become brainwashed by one news article

need more than daz to clean their minds

 

[Treacle Toes]

The point being made about how the media 'other' certain behaviour by near always describing the perpertrators as 'other/Black/Asian/Arab/etc' to the mainstream is a sound one...we all know this. It's one example of how institutionalised racism plays out. If the perps looked as if they were of North African descent and the victims said so it isn't racist to publish those observations...our worries about the fall out from that and how it could be used is something else entirely.

Describing someone's phenotype and associating that with an ethnicity doesn't equate to racism on it's own.

 

[andysays]

http://metrogees.myfastforum.org/TA_DAAA__about5761.html

How about here? Is the poster being racist?


"that's what happens when you allow in thousands of young men from muslim countries who don't know how to interact decently with women."

Or here?

"It's not bigoted to be disgusted by these animals attacking women.

And you want more and more of them to be allowed to roam freely throughout Europe."

Those things are clearly racist, but I don't think it's racist for the BBC to report what the policeman quoted above said, and I'm not convinced (though open to persuasion) that it's racist for him to have said it.

Inevitably there will be those who seek to make racist political capital from this, just as there have been with other recent horrific stories. We can hopefully avoid conflating reasonable reporting of facts with the racist comments like those you've mentioned, because that does no one any favours, except the racists.

 

[frogwoman]

Let's hope the same mistakes as Rotherham are not repeated here during the discussion and investigation of this event. Because that is something that has produced racism

 

[bimble]

Just in ref to the 'racial profiling' thing, it looks like a lot of people have been claiming that there was resistance to mentioning the appearance of the attackers for just the concerns raised in this thread & worries about playing into the hands of far right led to media being resistant to covering the story at all, as well as appealing for witnesses.

This is in German but there are other sources too, just this seems the least dodgy.
Sexuelle Übergriffe in Köln: "Die Medien haben versagt"

This one's worse but in English
Cover-up claim over NYE mass sexual assaults

 

[goldenecitrone]

Everything must be done to investigate the guilty parties as quickly and completely as possible and to punish them without regard to their background or origins.

Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert said.

Genau.

 

[krtek a houby]

Those things are clearly racist, but I don't think it's racist for the BBC to report what the policeman quoted above said, and I'm not convinced (though open to persuasion) that it's racist for him to have said it.

Inevitably there will be those who seek to make racist political capital from this, just as there have been with other recent horrific stories. We can hopefully avoid conflating reasonable reporting of facts with the racist comments like those you've mentioned, because that does no one any favours, except the racists.

What I find interesting is that the poster I have quoted on that forum has posted on this very forum, language toned down, of course. This unfortunate story is a godsend for the two faced, bitter racists out there.

 

[Treacle Toes]

What I find interesting is that the poster I have quoted on that forum has posted on this very forum, language toned down, of course. This unfortunate story is a godsend for the two faced, bitter racists out there.

 

[scifisam]

Over the decades (particularly the early 90s) coordinated gangs of youths used to come to Brixton to do mob criminality at the various events at Brockwell Park because, if you want to do steaming or grab-and-flee crime, crowds are good places.

There were 80 reported assaults in Cologne (not the 'hundreds' of the OP). In London, there were 50 arrests on New Years' Eve and one rape.

Last Carnival, there were 400 arrests over the weekend. Presumably, most of those would have been of black people.

Comparing London and Cologne only make the Cologne events look worse - London has ten times the population and loads of people visit for NYE.

In theory men from countries where women aren't as respected, especially women who dress in clothing that doesn't cover everything, would be more of an assault risk, but I have to say that I've never noticed tons of hassle from the Bengalis in my area, where they are a majority, or noticed anything odd (in body language or comments) about any of my Syrian or ME male students. So this mass attack is extra confusing to me.

 

[andysays]

What I find interesting is that the poster I have quoted on that forum has posted on this very forum, language toned down, of course. This unfortunate story is a godsend for the two faced, bitter racists out there.

That is interesting if you're correct, but I have no way of knowing if you are or who the poster here you're referring to is, so I'm not sure what conclusions we should draw.

 

[krtek a houby]

Indeed. We won't get an answer from said poster, of course. Anyway, the attack is bizarre and (afaik) unprecedented - what did they hope to achieve, if it was planned via social media?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Good point scifisam . With regard the whole 'stemaing' thing which I have experienced in different places in the world...the question I have about the sexual assualt element is if it is an added tactic to the whole steam in, targeting women as vulnerable and distract in order to rob them. Cunts...regardless.

 

[krtek a houby]

That is interesting if you're correct, but I have no way of knowing if you are or who the poster here you're referring to is, so I'm not sure what conclusions we should draw.

Poster has a different alias on that forum and has delighted in the past by alerting people whenever I lose an argument over here or got called out when my language or opinion was deemed inappropriate (which is often, I grant you). Said poster was one of the reasons I asked for my username to be changed here. I couldn't resist turning the tables, which is probably childish in the extreme. So; apologies, I don't want to derail such an important topic.

 

[8115]

Comparing London and Cologne only make the Cologne events look worse - London has ten times the population and loads of people visit for NYE.

In theory men from countries where women aren't as respected, especially women who dress in clothing that doesn't cover everything, would be more of an assault risk, but I have to say that I've never noticed tons of hassle from the Bengalis in my area, where they are a majority, or noticed anything odd (in body language or comments) about any of my Syrian or ME male students. So this mass attack is extra confusing to me.

I think saying that women aren't as respected in these other countries is a bit of a leap, a lot of people would disagree with you. Cultural differences are more complicated than that.

And it's not as simple as, legs out, going to get assaulted, because sexual violence against women is a lot more complex than that.

 

[andysays]

Poster has a different alias on that forum and has delighted in the past by alerting people whenever I lose an argument over here or got called out when my language or opinion was deemed inappropriate (which is often, I grant you). Said poster was one of the reasons I asked for my username to be changed here. I couldn't resist turning the tables, which is probably childish in the extreme. So; apologies, I don't want to derail such an important topic.

Fair enough - probably best we don't take it any further.

 

[Thora]

A video:

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in that video It looks like a load of people standing round, drinking, and recklessly setting off fireworks which is traditionally what has happened on every Berlin NYE I've been to.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think saying that women aren't as respected in these other countries is a bit of a leap, a lot of people would disagree with you. Cultural differences are more complicated than that.

And it's not as simple as, legs out, going to get assaulted, because sexual violence against women is a lot more complex than that.

The two times I have been sexually assaulted (16 plus) were by White men, in England, no skin apart from my face and hands on show.

I think Sam did make an important point about how we attribute certain behaviour to certain ethnicitie/communities or some people try to. in the 'othering' way. Saying they looked they were of North African descent doesn't mean they are not/less German for example....may never have been to North Africa.

 

[bimble]

Saying they looked they were of North African descent doesn't mean they are not/less German for example....may never have been to North Africa.

Yep. And "the police have also insisted that many of the men had been known to them for some time and that they were not a group of newly-arrived refugees."
Cover-up claim over NYE mass sexual assaults