Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[ItWillNeverWork]

I'm interested in hearing more about the whole 'race is a social construct' thing, as I've heard people say it before but never really understood the argument. Maybe for another thread though as I don't want to derail this one.

 

[Patteran]

I'm interested in hearing more about the whole 'race is a social construct' thing, as I've heard people say it before but never really understood the argument. Maybe for another thread though as I don't want to derail this one.

(Discussed in this thread last year - post #475 contains a link from butchersapron to a terrific book, Racecraft, by Karen & Barbara Fields)

 

[Casually Red]

Tbh many men particularly intoxicated can quickly coalesce into this type of group behaviour. I remember many years ago in Trafalgar Sq loads of blokes trying to snog my then girlfriend with the situation soon becoming uncomfortable for us both and we slunk off to the side streets.

I doubt these men really planned as much as is made out. They just planned to get together and act up a bit.

Women are really at the bottom though aren't they? First concern appears to be with people who weren't either the perps or the victims. I get why and the racism should be opposed vehemently, but first consideration should be about educating all men.

Tbh in cases like these we are most likely dealing with predatory criminals who already know full well their behaviour is wrong , and the only "education" such predators are likely to benefit from is from a period in a special camp somewhere cold and remote . For such predators robbery, assault and sexual assault are all the same as they derive a personal pleasure and benefit from it. From commiting the act itself . So when they plan to go out and enjoy themselves and " act up " all of the above is on the menu beforehand .

I think a comparison with the repeated disgusting attacks on women in egypts Tahrir square during the protests there is more apt than trafalgar square . If we are going to go down the road of comparisons. And it'd take an army of sociologists to figure that one out . In the meantime , sad as it is, it seems women in particular should now try and avoid gatherings and concentrations of young men of that particular origin during festivities like this. And the cops should focus on them . There's a very serious problem at the minute and right now personal safety trumps all in my view .

 

[bluescreen]

The Mayor of Cologne said today that women should adopt a “code of conduct” to prevent future assault at a crisis meeting following the sexual attack of women by 1000 men on New Year’s eve.
The crisis management team said prevention measures should include a code of conduct for young women and girls, and Mayor Reker said the existing code of conduct will be updated online.

The suggested code of conduct includes maintaining an arm’s length distance from strangers, to stick within your own group, to ask bystanders for help or to intervene as a witness, or to inform the police if you are the victim of such an assault.

In anticipation of large carnivals in the city centre in February, Mayor Reker promised an increased police presence. She warned young women about potential dangers of drunken events.

People expressed frustration at the focus on the victims rather than the perpetrators.

The Cologne Mayor tells women how to act in public to prevent future assault

 

[ska invita]

I'm interested in hearing more about the whole 'race is a social construct' thing, as I've heard people say it before but never really understood the argument. Maybe for another thread though as I don't want to derail this one.

Race is a meaningless term scientifically - no definition of a type of race is meaningful scientifically, and no proper scientist would use it- the only meaning it can have is in racist discourse. Theres just no such thing as race, other than in racist discourse.

'No race but the human race' isnt just a cliche, its a scientific truth.

 

[Casually Red]

I am somewhat aware of what sexual violence is, thanks. However, in this situation we actually are talking about what random physical sexual assaults on women in public.

A lot of people would disagree about women being less respected in the ME but TBH that's stretching cultural relativism too far; it does, of course, vary from country to country, but in general the more power religion has - any religion, not just Islam - the fewer rights women have (look at the most religious US states and abortion rights, for example). Still, that absolutely does not equate to men from those religious countries acting like the men in Cologne and Hamburg on NYE, attacking random women as an enormous group (and not as soldiers in a war) - if they were from that region at all. That would be bizarre behaviour for any country or culture.

It's not bizarre behaviour from predatory criminals though . We aren't talking about men as such but a large group of criminally inclined men apparently acting in concert . For me the comparisons to this are pretty striking . Except for the fact the cops in Germany seem more inclined to tackle the problem.

80 sexual assaults in one day – the other story of Tahrir Square

 

[Casually Red]

The Cologne Mayor tells women how to act in public to prevent future assault

Jesus

 

[trashpony]

The Cologne Mayor tells women how to act in public to prevent future assault

Jesus

You just did the exact same thing

In the meantime , sad as it is, it seems women in particular should now try and avoid gatherings and concentrations of young men of that particular origin during festivities like this.

 

[bimble]

CR just added an extra bit, about how we should avoid groups of men "of that particular origin".

 

[Casually Red]

You just did the exact same thing

I'm not the fucking mayor of cologne though, am I . I'm not issuing directives to the general public as to how they should " conduct " themselves. Merely stating that if I was a woman in cologne I'd personally avoid any concentrations of young Arab men / north African men out of fears for my own safety .

The mayor of cologne though is lecturing her constituents on their code of conduct, as if their behaviour is the problem and not the other way about. Issuing a code of conduct to women and not the fucking criminals and rapists .

 

[andysays]

CR just added an extra bit, about how we should avoid groups of men "of that particular origin".

Next step - men of "that particular origin" made to wear special symbols in public so they're more easily identifiable and avoidable, no doubt...

 

[Casually Red]

Next step - men of "that particular origin" made to wear special symbols in public so they're more easily identifiable and avoidable, no doubt...

So ..no doubt..you believe women in cologne and hamburg have nothing out of the ordinary to fear from large concentrations of young Arab men hanging around train stations then . And that any such fears they might have are an example of their own inner racism. That presumably thy should be ashamed of .

No doubt.

 

[treelover]

Not to in any way to suggest that this situation is less than serious, and should be treated that way, the BBC articles said 80 assaults, which was revised upwards to 90. As I said this doesn't lessen the seriousness of these attacks but it is different to claiming, as the thread title does, "100 of women" assaulted.

Sensational reporting doesn't help the cause.

Like posters on Urban often righly point out, it can ta
ke a while for a victim of sexual assualt to come forward, more are doing so daily, this is a crisis for Germany

btw, I mentioned the events to a liberal type female elder friend of mine, the first things she said was "oh dear, what about the refugees now?", no mention of the victims, what is happening?

 

[treelover]

Tbh in cases like these we are most likely dealing with predatory criminals who already know full well their behaviour is wrong , and the only "education" such predators are likely to benefit from is from a period in a special camp somewhere cold and remote . For such predators robbery, assault and sexual assault are all the same as they derive a personal pleasure and benefit from it. From commiting the act itself . So when they plan to go out and enjoy themselves and " act up " all of the above is on the menu beforehand .

I think a comparison with the repeated disgusting attacks on women in egypts Tahrir square during the protests there is more apt than trafalgar square . If we are going to go down the road of comparisons. And it'd take an army of sociologists to figure that one out . In the meantime , sad as it is, it seems women in particular should now try and avoid gatherings and concentrations of young men of that particular origin during festivities like this. And the cops should focus on them . There's a very serious problem at the minute and right now personal safety trumps all in my view .

All up to a thousand of them?, some posters have mentioned steaming, but surely there have been few mobs that big doing the steaming, one report says they were lined up like a punishment team on both sides and women were groped very aggressively(with bruises to breasts, thighs, etc) as they had to go down these lines away from the station. disgusting.

 

[Casually Red]

All up to a thousand of them?, some posters have mentioned steaming, but surely there have been few mobs that big doing the steaming, one report says they were lined up like a punishment team on both sides and women were groped very aggressively(with bruises to breasts, thighs, etc) as they had to go down these lines away from the station. disgusting.

Yeah. These are obviously criminal gangs acting in concert , a string of mobs co operating together on the principle of maximum numbers for maximum intimidation and success .This appears to have been organised criminal activity and not spontaneous. Like it was in tahrir .

The German cops say they've never encountered anything on this scale before either . And it's going to take something more significant than a " code of conduct " for local women to tackle it. If the authorities don't take a seriously robust approach to this then vigilantism, most likely by the far right ,will be the inevitable and very obvious result of these scumbags activity .

I was going to say this has the potential to get out of hand. But when you've a thousand strong gang with potentially hundreds of victims on one night the fact is it already has .

 

[treelover]

Just been a report from a journo in Cologne on Five Live, its sounds horrifying, women were pushed bodily into dark areas and then sexually assaulted.It also looks like many more were attacked, this will be seen as seminal event in the country.

 

[Casually Red]

Just been a report from a journo in Cologne on Five Live, its sounds horrifying, women were pushed bodily into dark areas and then sexually assaulted.It also looks like many more were attacked, this will be seen as seminal event in the country.

The Germans will go fucking mental about this. No doubt about it.

 

[Casually Red]

CR just added an extra bit, about how we should avoid groups of men "of that particular origin".

Yes. It strongly appears be that's who's carrying out these thousand strong sexual assault sprees in a busy city centre . Gangs of young men from north africa and the middle east . Unless your suggesting it wasn't .

 

[treelover]

Only after the square was reopened, after midnight, did the police begin receiving reports of the assaults.

During that time, young men appeared to have broken into smaller groups that would encircle a victim, with some groping her while others would steal her wallet or cellphone.

1"Nobody knew where to go,” Sascha Frohn, who said he was in the station on Thursday, told the public broadcaster WDR. “We stood with our backs to the wall and could see how people were robbed and German girls were groped. I was surrounded by a group of 50 to 60 people from Arabic countries. They would come up to us, shake hands and then try to reach into our bags.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/w...gne-were-unprecedented-germany-says.html?_r=0

NYT report

 

[Casually Red]

NYT report

I've got to say that mayor is an absolute fucking idiot . She's treating the entire thing like its some cultural misunderstanding . Like its some Arab lads got a bit carried away when confronted by a society that's a bit more liberal, as if they haven't yet grasped the nuances of appropriate behaviour. What happened in tahrir square shows that it's vicious criminals taking advantage of strength in numbers and nothing to do with cultural etiquette .

These bastards were tossing fireworks into crowds of innocent people to begin with, knowing they had the strength in numbers to intimidate everyone in the vicinity . Then they went after the women in a methodical fashion, not just sexually assaulting them but also robbing them . this was organised , vicious criminality on a mass scale by a pack of absolute bastards and not some confused and socially inept immigrants making a cultural faux pas or 2 .

That stupid, arrogant woman's handling of this is going to make things a hell of a lot worse . As will what appears to be the attempt to hush the entire thing up by the political establishment . Which will hardly inspire many more victims to come forward, which is most likely what the authorities didn't want to begin with .

Eta

She's referred in her statement to these sexual assaults as " celebratory behaviour " and " sexual frankness " that requires the authorities to explain things a bit better . Unfucking believable. The rapists must be pissing themselves laughing once they heard that . Fuck knows how the victims reacted to it .

 

[Casually Red]

btw, I mentioned the events to a liberal type female elder friend of mine, the first things she said was "oh dear, what about the refugees now?", no mention of the victims, what is happening?

You'll hear a lot of that in the coming days and weeks. Nothing surer.

 

[toggle]

These bastards were tossing fireworks into crowds of innocent people to begin with, knowing they had the strength in numbers to intimidate everyone in the vicinity . Then they went after the women in a methodical fashion, not just sexually assaulting them but also robbing them . .

actually, i wonder if that's the other way round. not just robbing them, but also sexually assaulting them. meaning robbery was the main motive. would fit with some of the stuff up thread that seemed to suggest that some of the men involved had form for street robbery.

fireworks create chaos to seperate off the easier victims.

sexual assault not only for the shits to get their kicks, but also to intimidate. make the victims less likely to report and less able to give a coherent report of the attackers.

if so, makes it easier to place the focus on those engaging in criminal behavior, not trying to claim that rape is part of some cultures.

 

[Casually Red]

actually, i wonder if that's the other way round. not just robbing them, but also sexually assaulting them. meaning robbery was the main motive. would fit with some of the stuff up thread that seemed to suggest that some of the men involved had form for street robbery.

fireworks create chaos to seperate off the easier victims.

sexual assault not only for the shits to get their kicks, but also to intimidate. make the victims less likely to report and less able to give a coherent report of the attackers.

if so, makes it easier to place the focus on those engaging in criminal behavior, not trying to claim that rape is part of some cultures.

I think the fireworks had the effect to instil fear in the passersby . To intimidate everyone .To exert dominance over the surroundings . " we've taken this square, it's ours, and we'll do as we please with who we please "
In my view a predator will view a sexual assault and a robbery in a similar guise . Hell get a psychological reward as well as a financial. even just from intimidating people, they'll get a kick from that . The power . The power is probably the bigger kick than the financial reward. And even just robbing someone humiliates them too .

Here's a YouTube video of some of these shits lobbing rockets into groups of people around the train station . You can see massed ranks congregated around the station entrance as well along the sides .And the talk seems to be all Arabic, not German . Gives you an idea of the numbers we are dealing with here.

 

[Casually Red]

Actually this video gives you a much better idea of what the intimidatory atmosphere was like right outside the railway station. It must have been extremely frightening for anyone caught up in it .Sorry for the dodgy websites advertised at the very end , couldn't find another .

Eta

More here. Police response looked to be utterly pathetic . Tiny presence .

 

[bimble]

I've got to say that mayor is an absolute fucking idiot . She's treating the entire thing like its some cultural misunderstanding . .
That stupid, arrogant woman's handling of this is going to make things a hell of a lot worse .

Not saying you're wrong CR, about her (mayor of Cologne) but can you post up a link to her making those statements please?
If she said those things you quote her as saying i think you're right she must be an idiot but it's interesting - not an excuse just a bit of background - that this happened to her just before she was elected Mayor (attempted murder by a far right loon, for her pro-refugee stance.. )

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/w...k-on-mayoral-candidate-over-refugee-work.html

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not the fucking mayor of cologne though, am I . I'm not issuing directives to the general public as to how they should " conduct " themselves. Merely stating that if I was a woman in cologne I'd personally avoid any concentrations of young Arab men / north African men out of fears for my own safety .

The mayor of cologne though is lecturing her constituents on their code of conduct, as if their behaviour is the problem and not the other way about. Issuing a code of conduct to women and not the fucking criminals and rapists .

how would you avoid them?

 

[Pickman's model]

Not saying you're wrong CR, about her (mayor of Cologne) but can you post up a link to her making those statements please?
If she said those things you quote her as saying i think you're right she must be an idiot but it's interesting - not an excuse just a bit of background - that this happened to her just before she was elected Mayor (attempted murder by a far right loon, for her pro-refugee stance.. )

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/w...k-on-mayoral-candidate-over-refugee-work.html

have you ever considered reading the fucking thread?

 

[Brainaddict]

I think the fireworks had the effect to instil fear in the passersby . To intimidate everyone .To exert dominance over the surroundings . " we've taken this square, it's ours, and we'll do as we please with who we please "

It may be true they created an intimidatory atmosphere, but you are reading way too much into the fireworks. Firing fireworks at each other is how many Europeans celebrate NYE (certainly in Germany and the Netherlands), and I think a lot of those fireworks in the vids are just men in different parts of the square firing at each other. It looks very dangerous to Brits because we've been trained to put fireworks in the ground and retreat to 50m, but is fairly normal there - watch this 2012 video from Berlin:

Any kind of sexual assault is horrendous, and appalling things seemed to have happened here. But your misreading of the fireworks suggests anyone lobbing fireworks around was involved in assaulting people - not a helpful inference and seemingly based on ignorance of NYE celebration in Germany.

 

[bimble]

have you ever considered reading the fucking thread?

I've read it. Maybe I missed the link to the quotes I was asking for?

 

[Pickman's model]

It may be true they created an intimidatory atmosphere, but you are reading way too much into the fireworks. Firing fireworks at each other is how many Europeans celebrate NYE (certainly in Germany and the Netherlands), and I think a lot of those fireworks in the vids are just men in different parts of the square firing at each other. It looks very dangerous to Brits because we've been trained to put fireworks in the ground and retreat to 50m, but is fairly normal there - watch this 2012 video from Berlin:

Any kind of sexual assault is horrendous, and appalling things seemed to have happened here. But your misreading of the fireworks suggests anyone lobbing fireworks around was involved in assaulting people - not a helpful inference and seemingly based on ignorance of NYE celebration in Germany.

as a rule of thumb i would sayy someone lobbing fireworks at someone else was assaulting them