Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[frogwoman]

i think this, could potentially have a far worse effect on attitudes towards islam/immigration in Europe than the terrorist attacks in Paris etc.

 

[pocketscience]

Similarly as regards the assaults in St Pauli. Had a bunch of boneheads been wandering about targeting women of non German ethnicity, or hassling gays or whatever they wouldn't have gotten out of there alive . No doubt about it . Yet seemingly everyone had taken the night off or gone deaf dumb and blind . And off the bastards wandered, on their merry way . After a string of repeat sexual assaults right in the middle of St Pauli , we're presumably the entire fucking local fan base would have been out celebrating NYE . Just meters away from that rape gang . Who walked off unscathed after targeting multiple women at their leisure . It's not exactly a huge area after all.

Sadly the borough is always way off the charts in the official nationwide statistics for sex offences.
The extent of the red light tourism, booze and drugs on the Reeperbahn at any given weekend regularly leads to carnage which also tends to attract such predators. Nowhere else in Germany comes close.
It's virtially impossible to police and that may be a reason why the Hells Angels and the Albanian Mafia have a free reign on "security" in the area and tbf, compared to those two the St Pauli Ultras are like a group of boy scouts.

 

[bluescreen]

[thought better of it]

 

[bimble]

i think this, could potentially have a far worse effect on attitudes towards islam/immigration in Europe than the terrorist attacks in Paris etc.

Agree. And made so much worse by how its been handled.

 

[frogwoman]

Cologne sex assaults test the limits of German tolerance - FT.com

 

[bimble]

^ paywall thing

 

[DownwardDog]

My (Syrian) wife's grim comment: If the Germans had asked any Syrian woman what would happen then they wouldn't be surprised now...

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well the police chief has now come out and said its unlikely anyone will be caught and prosecuted over this, so we might as well all shut up then . As " the facts " now simply won't be established to the degree deemed satisfactory to those on the left who say this should not be discussed, because " the facts aren't established ". The Mayor has now come out and said its " absolutely impermissible " to even suggest the gang were refugees , because that fact has not been established . And the German media are now openly admitting they had the facts at their disposal from the very outset and chose not to report on them .presumably someone thought it better not to proceed until the facts are established more thoroughly .

A lot of Germans in poSitions of power and responsibility seem to be taking a similar line on this to the one you are suggesting .

Tensions rise in Germany over handling of mass sexual assaults in Cologne

So we should as you suggest simply not have the conservation. We are unable to .

Btw it turns out its five separate cities this happened in now, not the 3 stated originally . Cologne, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Frankfurt and Dusseldorf . And 2 rapes reported now in Cologne and not just one.

Safe to say at this point they've most likely gotten away with it .

So the point of all that ^^^^ is merely to push your own line and denounce anything as rational as "let's wait until the facts are in". Nice.

 

[Pickman's model]

My (Syrian) wife's grim comment: If the Germans had asked any Syrian woman what would happen then they wouldn't be surprised now...

i see you're quite sure these were recent immigrants.

 

[bimble]

My (Syrian) wife's grim comment: If the Germans had asked any Syrian woman what would happen then they wouldn't be surprised now...

That is very grim indeed.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Very well said I would just like to add to that, the atrocities people are capable of carrying out when part of an anonymous group, that's been very well documented. And the addictive thrill of power and intimidation. As for constructing justifications, absolutely I believe every human being has a tendency to do this for every mean and cruel act they do. "They had it coming" or "it was tough love" or "if I helped them that never learn to stand on their own feet", or they did this to me many years ago so I won't help them now", etc etc.

A tendency does not equate to a practice, just as a tendency to construct justifications for behaviour in one field of social life, doesn't equate to the same tendency in all fields of social life.

 

[bimble]

i see you're quite sure these were recent immigrants.

Nobody seems to know. But the "leaked police report" that is being written about does say:

"The Express newspaper quoted an unnamed police officer who said his squad had detained several people who had "only been in Germany for a few weeks .. Of these people, 14 were from Syria and one was from Afghanistan. That's the truth. Although it hurts," he said.

The newspaper quoted a second police officer as confirming the 15 who were held had "residence permits for the asylum procedure". Officers took down their names, and they are in the police records, he said.

If confirmed, the report will add new weight to claims of a police cover-up. The Cologne authorities have claimed they have no evidence whether asylum-seekers were involved.

It is not clear why the suspects were released but police officers have said they were overwhelmed on the night."

 

[ViolentPanda]

what you'vee missed out is power

TBH I thought that male/female power relations were too obvious to mention.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nobody seems to know. But the "leaked police report" that is being written about does say:

"The Express newspaper quoted an unnamed police officer who said his squad had detained several people who had "only been in Germany for a few weeks .. Of these people, 14 were from Syria and one was from Afghanistan. That's the truth. Although it hurts," he said.

The newspaper quoted a second police officer as confirming the 15 who were held had "residence permits for the asylum procedure". Officers took down their names, and they are in the police records, he said.

If confirmed, the report will add new weight to claims of a police cover-up. The Cologne authorities have claimed they have no evidence whether asylum-seekers were involved.

It is not clear why the suspects were released but police officers have said they were overwhelmed on the night."

Dogsauce seems quite sure

 

[Pickman's model]

TBH I thought that male/female power relations were too obvious to mention.

i was wondering when you'd point that out

 

[Athos]

Nobody seems to know. But the "leaked police report" that is being written about does say:

"The Express newspaper quoted an unnamed police officer who said his squad had detained several people who had "only been in Germany for a few weeks .. Of these people, 14 were from Syria and one was from Afghanistan. That's the truth. Although it hurts," he said.

The newspaper quoted a second police officer as confirming the 15 who were held had "residence permits for the asylum procedure". Officers took down their names, and they are in the police records, he said.

If confirmed, the report will add new weight to claims of a police cover-up. The Cologne authorities have claimed they have no evidence whether asylum-seekers were involved.

It is not clear why the suspects were released but police officers have said they were overwhelmed on the night."

I don't know what happened, but there's one hypothesis that would explain why all those arrested were Syrian, and why they were released the following day: the police believed assylum seekers were to blame, and so rounded them up, but there was no evidence of their guilt, so they had to be released. I'd be very, very reluctant to draw any conclusions from this anecdote (even if we could check its accuracy, which we can't).

 

[ViolentPanda]

Suspects in Cologne sex attacks 'claimed to be Syrian refugees'

"The Express newspaper quoted an unnamed police officer who said his squad had detained several people who had "only been in Germany for a few weeks".
"Of these people, 14 were from Syria and one was from Afghanistan. That's the truth. Although it hurts," he said.

The newspaper quoted a second police officer as confirming the 15 who were held had "residence permits for the asylum procedure". Officers took down their names, and they are in the police records, he said.

If confirmed, the report will add new weight to claims of a police cover-up. The Cologne authorities have claimed they have no evidence whether asylum-seekers were involved.

If it's confirmed then there's at least and at last a basis on which to look at migrants, rather than some posters going straight for the easy solution.

It is not clear why the suspects were released but police officers have said they were overwhelmed on the night."

If it's anything like the OB here on NYE, it usually is entirely due to being overwhelmed/overrun. Over here they do usually process you, and put you on police bail (re-attend the station on such-and-such a date), though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i was wondering when you'd point that out

As soon as I read it, obviously!

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't know what happened, but there's one hypothesis that would explain why all those arrested were Syrian, and why they were released the following day: the police believed assylum seekers were to blame, and so rounded them up, but there was no evidence of their guilt, so they had to be released. I'd be very, very reluctant to draw any conclusions from this anecdote (even if we could check its accuracy, which we can't).

sounds like a diamond anecdote then

 

[crossthebreeze]

My (Syrian) wife's grim comment: If the Germans had asked any Syrian woman what would happen then they wouldn't be surprised now...

One aspect of this that scares me (as well as the actual incidents which are terrifying in themselves) is the effect this will have on Syrian / Arab /North African /Muslim women - any increase in racism or tightening of the immigration system will affect them as much, maybe even more so, than men - and there's often barriers (language/cultural but also sometimes financial/legal) to refugee and migrant women accessing domestic violence/rape crisis types services.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I bet they're all deserters from Assad's SAA. It bears the hallmarks of a bunch of soldiers letting rip rather than anything cultural. It might explain how it was so coordinated.

I suspect that if you canvass serving and ex-soldiers on Urban, you'll find that few - if any - of us have either seen or engaged in such behaviour, here or on foreign postings. There are quite a few of us, by the way, with service spanning from the New Model Army ( Sasaferrato ) to now.

 

[Pickman's model]

I suspect that if you canvass serving and ex-soldiers on Urban, you'll find that few - if any - of us have either seen or engaged in such behaviour, here or on foreign postings. There are quite a few of us, by the way, with service spanning from the New Model Army ( Sasaferrato ) to now.

sasaferrato was at agincourt

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tbh, this is another taboo: that sexual molestation is all about power, not about desire. Yes, of course it's about power but people wouldn't do it if they didn't enjoy it.

Some will do it because they enjoy it. There's no doubt about that. Some will do it purely for reasons of power/establishment of control, though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

sasaferrato was at agincourt

I was being kind.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was being kind.

anyway he's more of a cavalier than a roundhead

 

[crossthebreeze]

View attachment 81764

Where/when was that from?

 

[Pickman's model]

Where/when was that from?

today's mail website

 

[ViolentPanda]

More like a loosely connected group Pickman's model. I will defend my right to idly speculate on the internet so I will add it would explain why they gave Turkey a swerve as a place of sanctuary.

Why would they "give Turkey a swerve"?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Frances Coppola is normally sensible.

She needs to have a horse's head left in her bed.