It wasn't your whole post I was speaking about, I said that a couple of sentences like this one "If a child shows they want to read at 3 then why stop them?" didn't chime with the previous discussion.
How would you like to see school education changed?
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It wasn't your whole post I was speaking about, I said that a couple of sentences like this one "If a child shows they want to read at 3 then why stop them?" didn't chime with the previous discussion.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Its not that esay to do that. One has to prove one can do it to local authority. Its also not practical for many parents to do this.
Friend of mine has child in the vulnerable caategory. Took him out of school weeks before the lockdown. That is when I found about the fining of parents. He did it without asking school. For the moment Government says it will not fine parents.
Im not saying education should be privatised to expect the parents to do it at home or send children to school.
I do think places to learn should be available.
Its that it should not be compulsory.
Would you agree all the following should be dtiched?
School attendance and absence
You can be prosecuted if your child has unauthorised absence from school - truancy, help with getting your child to school, and legal action to enforce school attendance
Local Councils hae a lot of powers to sanction parents.
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
You took it out of the context and meaning of my entire post.
Thora
Differently Ethical
I don't think it's true that home schoolers have to prove anything to the local authority is it? LAs have a duty to check up on home schoolers but parents have no obligation to engage with them or prove anything.
You don't even need to tell your LA you are home schooling if you never send your child to school in the first place.
You don't even need to tell your LA you are home schooling if you never send your child to school in the first place.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
One thing Ive noticed is that posters here and the re opening school thread have said that school was not relevant to them and / or it put them off learning.
This appears to be people wo have gone to a variety of schools.
Puddy_Tat post above is example.
So I suggest for a long time the school system has had a negative effect on children. Herding young people into class rooms they don't really want to be at.
This appears to be people wo have gone to a variety of schools.
Puddy_Tat post above is example.
So I suggest for a long time the school system has had a negative effect on children. Herding young people into class rooms they don't really want to be at.
Nope, I pointed out that it didn't seem to fit with the rest of your post or the discussion.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Councils do have powers:
Educating your child at home
Educating your child at home ('home schooling'): when to get permission, telling the school, curriculum, SEN.
It might be option for well off middle class parents who have resources.
But most children seem to love primary school. It's secondary where people really get disaffected. Does that suggest it's just the curriculum that's the problem rather than the herding/bringing of children together?
Thora
Differently Ethical
But there is no definition of what a full time education is, and no requirement to use any particular resources.Educating your child at home
Educating your child at home ('home schooling'): when to get permission, telling the school, curriculum, SEN.www.gov.uk
It might be option for well off middle class parents who have resources.
There are no legal requirements for you as parents educating a child at home to do any of the following:
• acquire specific qualifications for the task
• have premises equipped to any particular standard
• aim for the child to acquire any specific qualifications
• teach the National Curriculum • provide a ‘broad and balanced’ curriculum
• make detailed lesson plans in advance • give formal lessons
• mark work done by the child
• formally assess progress, or set development objectives
• reproduce school type peer group socialisation
• match school-based, age-specific standards
As I understand it we have very liberal laws (or lack of) regarding home schooling compared to many countries.
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
It's unfortunately how a lot of newly trained teachers practice. You might have missed the reference or maybe I was not clear enough.
I was actually making the point for individual learning for all children. So that every children learns at their own pace and not the pace dictated by grouping in the class.
Anyway. I find it a bit off putting that my post was condensed in your mind to only one sentence and you found no value in my post.
But that's life. I'm certainly not going to lose a minute's peace over it.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Councils do have powers:
Educating your child at home
Educating your child at home ('home schooling'): when to get permission, telling the school, curriculum, SEN.
It might be option for well off middle class parents who have resources.
At secondary level it's difficult for parents to provide a wide enough range of education but that's nothing to do with government guidelines.
Legally parents are allowed to not send their children to school, as long as they actually withdraw their child from the school they were registered with, or don't send them in the first place. There will usually - hopefully always - be welfare checks that include making sure that, if the kid isn't in school, they're still getting access to education in some way, and that they haven't been withdrawn from school for reason that's not just about wanting or needing to home educate.
I'm not sure you know very much about homeschooling, TBH.
It's unfortunately how a lot of newly trained teachers practice. You might have missed the reference or maybe I was not clear enough.
I was actually making the point for individual learning for all children. So that every children learns at their own pace and not the pace dictated by grouping in the class.
Anyway. I find it a bit off putting that my post was condensed in your mind to only one sentence and you found no value in my post.
But that's life. I'm certainly not going to lose a minute's peace over it.
I didn't say that, I recognised the rest of your post was different. But anyway.
Gramsci , I am genuinely interested in what your idea of education would look like? If schools are not the answer and home schooling is the preserve of the middle classes, what would education look like? How would it support everyone including those living in poverty, with illness or with additional needs? How would it lead to a more integrated society where people from all spheres of society came together rather than creating their own segregated communities?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I dont. It was brought up and I checked the rules and there are sanctions available to Councils.
What I originally posted is that school should not be compulsory.
To do this all the rules around sanctioning / fining parents need ditching. Do you agree with that?
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
No, because school is not compulsory. Councils cannot sanction parents who notify them that they're homeschooling.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
The problem with school being voluntary is that you need some way of ensuring children aren’t missing out because their parents’ choices are in conflict with the child’s right to an education. Reasons might include:
We have to protect the right of the child to start adulthood having had a fair stab at an education.
- parent doesn’t value academic pathways
- cultural belief that girls shouldn’t be educated to same level as boys
- child is being abused at home
- child required to work in family business
- child required to care for younger siblings
- child required to care for adults with particular needs
We have to protect the right of the child to start adulthood having had a fair stab at an education.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Steel Icarus
we move
What age is P4?
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
In-school exams are a different thing to SATs.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Secondary school ditto, except that the exams were in each subject. It was a week of exams, two terms a year.
It certainly got you used to sitting exams.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Ive put up the legislation. Quick google and parents do get fined. So Im saying that all that legislation should be ditched. So would you agree it should be ditched?
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
That legislation doesn't apply to homeschooling.
Thora
Differently Ethical
Having read it, I think if a parent who is already being sanctioned for not sending their child to school decides to deregister them, but can't prove they are actually home educating, the LA can apply for an order to force them to send the child back to school.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
But that's reasonable. They won't be asked to have bunsen burners at home, just a few books, and probably connections with local homeschooling networks, or some evidence to provide education. School itself still isn't compulsory.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Im talking about schools as compulosry institutions. I keep being told one can do home schooling. In which case ditch all the legislation around sanctioning parents. Parents still get fined.
There is difference between Institutionalisation of school/ education and places provided to learn at. Places which are entirely voluntary for children to attend.
So in my largely working class area- adventure playground, Youth Centre and a place to learn should all be provided free. The difference Im saying is that the place to learn at ( the school) should be voluntary to attend. Like the adventure playground and Youth centre. My local adventure playround has no problems with attendence. The youth centre is basicallly closed due to cuts. A lot of learning could take place outside the institutionalised school system. Its all been cut. Adventure playground in my area is only getting by on charity funding which is not gaurenteed.
I agree its when secondary school starts that young people get alienated from education. Been enough posts here and on the re opening schools thread about that.
Start could be made by actually letting young people do what they want. If ( this was example from re opening schools thread) a young person wants to strip down an engine and rebuild it let them do that. Provide facilties to enable this.
No timetables, no exams. If you don't want to do a subject you arent compelled to do it.
A comparison could be adult education. Another thing lifelong learning needs to be brought in. Each locality have a place of learning which encompasses youth and older people.
Only education I liked was Adult Education- to expensive now. I choose a class. If liked it continuued with it. If not did something different. Completely different atmosphere to school. Not compulsory.
A couple of people have suggested this but that it should wait til secondary or they are 13 or 14, why? The only reasonable reason I can think is safety but with controlled risks and at a suitable level why not younger?
Eta Should of read the thread. I was thinking something along the lines of what LDC said.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
No
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
If a child doesn’t want to do English because they find it hard, how would you ensure they do at least do enough so they can adequately read, write and analyse written information? I have worked with many who can’t read and write because they found it hard and nobody was there to help push and cajole them into learning it and they find navigating life incredibly tough. Without question they have all said to me they wish someone had cared enough to make them do what they didn’t necessarily like because ultimately it was good for them. Children should far, far more agency in their lives but they don’t always know what’s best for them because they’re children and they need our guidance and support.
And what about those who won’t educate their girls? I appreciate there is that issue with schools anyway because of the private school system but for example within the ultra orthodox Jewish community girls are not allowed to learn the same as the boys and are given very few opportunities and shown an incredibly narrow concept of what women can and cannot do. I think you’d have to resolve these issues first before you can have a totally voluntary system.
And what about those who won’t educate their girls? I appreciate there is that issue with schools anyway because of the private school system but for example within the ultra orthodox Jewish community girls are not allowed to learn the same as the boys and are given very few opportunities and shown an incredibly narrow concept of what women can and cannot do. I think you’d have to resolve these issues first before you can have a totally voluntary system.
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