How would you like to see school education changed?

[Steel Icarus]

Stop making kids resit the Maths and English GCSEs they failed over and over. Introduce separate Numeracy/Literacy quals at school. Do away with testing in Primary altogether - my daughter wet the bed the night before her SATS in Year 2 through fear of doing badly. Abolish private education.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

How would the numberacy and literacy tests differ from the GCSEs?

 

[CNT36]

Universal free early education from age 2 to 6.

Definitely with one proviso. It be made clear it is not compulsory. The pressure to send kids to nursery and preschool is massive. Obviously there are economic pressures that could be dealt with with a monetary alternative. When I say the daughter has not been to nursery or preschool there seem to be only two responses. That's terrible, you're holding her back etc or "I wish we could do that."

 

[CNT36]

Some initial thoughts in no particular order off the top of my head...

1/ Abolition of private schools. I'm torn between reappropriation and actual, physical, destruction. Seriously, I fear they'd, even as State schools become a magnet for the m/c and as long as they still stand they could potentially be reopened.

2/ Abolition of student fees.

3/ Abolition of parental choice. You go to your local comp. That's it.

4/ Abolition of examinations as method of assessment. Summative assessment in general really deemphasized and formative assessment prioritized.

5/ Lifelong free access to education supported by ubi. If someone wants to spend their life as a student on a grand a month for ever, great. One condition. Research etc. produced made freely available to all.

6/ workplace creches. Remove the for profit early years sector.

7/ League tables prohibited.

8/ Oxbridge - see private schools.

9/ Quota for privately educated employees in any business or institutions capped at 5%.

10/ abolition of streaming

I think given the rest of your list and a few other measures 3 could be moot. It makes sense for parents to be able to send their kids somewhere convenient and that's not always the closest to home.

 

[chilango]

I think given the rest of your list and a few other measures 3 could be moot. It makes sense for parents to be able to send their kids somewhere convenient and that's not always the closest to home.

Maybe.

But right now it's a key driver behind many of the problems we have.

 

[MickiQ]

Some initial thoughts in no particular order off the top of my head...

1/ Abolition of private schools. I'm torn between reappropriation and actual, physical, destruction. Seriously, I fear they'd, even as State schools become a magnet for the m/c and as long as they still stand they could potentially be reopened.

2/ Abolition of student fees.

3/ Abolition of parental choice. You go to your local comp. That's it.

4/ Abolition of examinations as method of assessment. Summative assessment in general really deemphasized and formative assessment prioritized.

5/ Lifelong free access to education supported by ubi. If someone wants to spend their life as a student on a grand a month for ever, great. One condition. Research etc. produced made freely available to all.

6/ workplace creches. Remove the for profit early years sector.

7/ League tables prohibited.

8/ Oxbridge - see private schools.

9/ Quota for privately educated employees in any business or institutions capped at 5%.

10/ abolition of streaming

If you have 1 to 8, 9 kind of takes care of itself and becomes redundant anyway, As for 10, I take it you mean streaming by ability within subject? Not all kids are equally good at the same thing, some are good at maths, some are crap at it but really good at art. Mixing the kids randomly you end up with more capable ones getting bored and not paying attention, the less capable ones not being able to keep up and not paying attention either. How would you handle that? There's a case for saying that adequate resources should be available to give everyone the best education they can get but that's not the same as pretending everyone is equally capable.

 

[Steel Icarus]

How would the numberacy and literacy tests differ from the GCSEs?

More basic skills. Add, subtract, multiply, divide. Percentage, angles, ratio, interest. What's the best deal on this loan/hoover/washing liquid. Home budgeting. Household bills.

 

[NoXion]

If private schools and league tables are abolished (which I also favour), and schools are assigned resources according to more equitable metrics (rather than "lots of toffs and greasy pole climbers live here"), then surely choosing schools would then simply become a case of whichever is most geographically convenient for the parents/guardian concerned.

 

[chilango]

If you have 1 to 8, 9 kind of takes care of itself and becomes redundant anyway, As for 10, I take it you mean streaming by ability within subject? Not all kids are equally good at the same thing, some are good at maths, some are crap at it but really good at art. Mixing the kids randomly you end up with more capable ones getting bored and not paying attention, the less capable ones not being able to keep up and not paying attention either. How would you handle that? There's a case for saying that adequate resources should be available to give everyone the best education they can get but that's not the same as pretending everyone is equally capable.

There's a difference between streaming and setting.

But most of my years teaching Art was of mixed ability groups and it wasn't an issue.

...and again, removing the individualised, competitive testing ethos also removes many if the issues you raise. Learning won't be cramming content to get a grade but a deeper, broader, richer learning where you'll get (as I used to lazily say in planning) "differentiation by outcome".

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

More basic skills. Add, subtract, multiply, divide. Percentage, angles, ratio, interest. What's the best deal on this loan/hoover/washing liquid. Home budgeting. Household bills.

Is that really that much different from a level 1 qualification? (and equivalent to 1-3 at GCSE )
colleges already get students with poor GCSEs to do that.
It's also what is offered at some SEN schools.

 

[Clair De Lune]

I'd like to see more outdoor lessons. I think an appreciation and care for nature should be encouraged.
I'd also like it if teachers let children move about more. Some kids concentrate a lot better if they get their jiggles out of their system
I think that young people should be able to grade their teachers in return so that it becomes clear when their dislike for a teacher effects their education, rather than it all being blamed on them. I hear too many stories of young people who stop trying in certain subjects because of the way a teacher treats them.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Is that really that much different from a level 1 qualification? (and equivalent to 1-3 at GCSE )
colleges already get students with poor GCSEs to do that.
It's also what is offered at some SEN schools.

The trouble with Functional Skills is that you don't do it until you've "failed" by not achieving a GCSE 4 or above. And furthermore Funky Skills Maths and English are far too obsessed with 'scenarios' - write a letter of complaint about a disappointing restaurant visit or imagine you're the owner of a garden centre.

 

[8ball]

More basic skills. Add, subtract, multiply, divide. Percentage, angles, ratio, interest. What's the best deal on this loan/hoover/washing liquid. Home budgeting. Household bills.

We did that in school. Partly in amongst maths and partly at other times.
This is a bit like that thread about consent classes which seem to have not existed in England (seemed no one knew the "no means no" song*).

Not the TMBG version, which I think has been used in US schools.

 

[Steel Icarus]

We did that in school. Partly in amongst maths and partly at other times.

But you didn't get a qual for it

 

[chilango]

More basic skills. Add, subtract, multiply, divide. Percentage, angles, ratio, interest. What's the best deal on this loan/hoover/washing liquid. Home budgeting. Household bills.

Those courses (and qualifications) exist (or did a couple of years ago when I was still teaching) but iirc they didn't count towards meeting the targets set to schools by the DfE so there was pressure not to use them.

 

[8ball]

But you didn't get a qual for it

I did kinda, the things you listed were components needed for Maths GCSE, and interest (APR vs. 'per annum' etc.) was a part of the GCSE syllabus.

 

[8115]

+1 for the abolition of private education.

 

[CNT36]

We did that in school. Partly in amongst maths and partly at other times.
This is a bit like that thread about consent classes which seem to have not existed in England (seemed no one knew the "no means no" song*).

Dad?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

The trouble with Functional Skills is that you don't do it until you've "failed" by not achieving a GCSE 4 or above. And furthermore Funky Skills Maths and English are far too obsessed with 'scenarios' - write a letter of complaint about a disappointing restaurant visit or imagine you're the owner of a garden centre.

So would you stream students into that maths instead of GCSE or give everyone this as an additional test?

I don't mean to be mean about this I just wonder how this would fit in to a new model.

 

[ska invita]

Conversely, smaller schools that go 3-18 can work well IME.

ive heard it said UK society is the most stratified by age than any other european country? Maybe further a field than that - I cant remember now.
What that means is we spend more time with people our own age than other people in the world do. 17 year olds only spend time with other 17 year olds. 11 year olds with 11 year olds etc . Even a small jump of two years is less likely than other places. True of older people too, especially so at the care home stage, whereas in other places people live with older relatives, or at least there's more mingling. This is very pronounced in UK schools supposedly. Inevitably it would happen a lot less in much smaller schools, particularly in a rural setting.
Can only be a good thing

 

[planetgeli]

I think that young people should be able to grade their teachers in return so that it becomes clear when their dislike for a teacher effects their education, rather than it all being blamed on them. I hear too many stories of young people who stop trying in certain subjects because of the way a teacher treats them.

As an advocate of much, much less testing and grading for pupils I can't support a simplified grading system the other way around either. Open to abuse, yeah Mr X let's all give him a P for Pedo!

But if you mean the implementation of a proper feedback system that pupils had faith in and the provision of comprehensive pastoral care that allowed for the highlighting of staff/pupil interactions based on testimony from pupils, then yes.

But if we trained teachers to a very high level (instead of a tick box exercise that readies them for admin and test instruction), really give them a level of training that allows them a certain level of autonomy in the classroom, then we'd automatically weed out - or improve - a lot of the lesser desirable traits we sometimes find.

 

[chilango]

ive heard it said UK society is the most stratified by age than any other european country? Maybe further a field than that - I cant remember now.
What that means is we spend more time with people our own age than other people in the world do. 17 year olds only spend time with other 17 year olds. 11 year olds with 11 year olds etc . Even a small jump of two years is less likely than other places. True of older people too, especially so at the care home stage, whereas in other places people live with older relatives, or at least there's more mingling. This is very pronounced in UK schools supposedly. Inevitably it would happen a lot less in much smaller schools, particularly in a rural setting.
Can only be a good thing

When I taught in an "all through" school in Mexico it was really nice to see the relationships between the younger and older kids. Good for both.

 

[chilango]

As an advocate of much, much less testing and grading for pupils I can't support a simplified grading system the other way around either. Open to abuse, yeah Mr X let's all give him a P for Pedo!

But if you mean the implementation of a proper feedback system that pupils had faith in and the provision of comprehensive pastoral care that allowed for the highlighting of staff/pupil interactions based on testimony from pupils, then yes.

But if we trained teachers to a very high level (instead of a tick box exercise that readies them for admin and test instruction), really give them a level of training that allows them a certain level of autonomy in the classroom, then we'd automatically weed out - or improve - a lot of the lesser desirable traits we sometimes find.

I think more democratic schools, with all the members of the school community have both greater voice and greater "self-management" would be a really positive step.

 

[Clair De Lune]

As an advocate of much, much less testing and grading for pupils I can't support a simplified grading system the other way around either. Open to abuse, yeah Mr X let's all give him a P for Pedo!

But if you mean the implementation of a proper feedback system that pupils had faith in and the provision of comprehensive pastoral care that allowed for the highlighting of staff/pupil interactions based on testimony from pupils, then yes.

But if we trained teachers to a very high level (instead of a tick box exercise that readies them for admin and test instruction), really give them a level of training that allows them a certain level of autonomy in the classroom, then we'd automatically weed out - or improve - a lot of the lesser desirable traits we sometimes find.

Agreed. Not some anonymous poll. But actual feedback in the way that teachers feedback to parents...but with less copy n pasting

I manage to get to that stage with clients with a few more questions. At first they might say I just hate her...but then we get into it and the answers are more like 'I hate it when she shouts .. or I think it's unfair when she punishes the whole class when most of us are behaving. She humiliated me etc.

I just hate hearing a young person has lost their love for a subject because they don't like the teacher. In one school where I work most kids are failing art when it was their favourite subject. They all tell me similar things about that teacher and I wish someone who could do something about it would listen.
Let's also be honest about the fact that there are teachers who don't seem at all keen on children or their jobs either.

 

[chilango]

Let's also be honest about the fact that there are teachers who don't seem at all keen on children or their jobs either.

...and they can't all be promoted to SLT.

 

[nagapie]

Much of what has been said already but also schools to fully include all students with disabilities as well as providing high quality, specialist provision according to the needs of the child.

 

[weltweit]

Something that bothers me about education is that kids mature at different rates, I know it is common to believe girls mature faster than boys for example. Yet all are forced through the exam and qualification hurdles at the same age - if they are ready for it or not.

I can quite see that it is easiest for the education system to just pump kids through the hoops by age, much the easiest thing, but anyhow for me I arrived at O levels at least a year before I would be ready and mature enough to take them, and my results were because of this more than disappointing.

 

[purenarcotic]

Much of what has been said already but also schools to fully include all students with disabilities as well as providing high quality, specialist provision according to the needs of the child.

Wo you want to see special schools closed and those kids integrated into mainstream, or are you thinking more that schools would effectively have on site special schools so kids might be taught differently but would have much more opportunity to mix?

 

[nagapie]

Wo you want to see special schools closed and those kids integrated into mainstream, or are you thinking more that schools would effectively have on site special schools so kids might be taught differently but would have much more opportunity to mix?

Something more like what you said but more integrated, the same school. Special schools are a kind of segregation. Anything delivered in these schools can be delivered in a setting with neurotypical children with the right resources. That way children with disabilities don't become the other they currently are in society.

 

[Gramsci]

Id like to suggest schools be abolished.

Why is it that education can only take place in an institution that is compulsory to attend?

What is the justification of making children and young people do this?

The idea that school are buildings one has to attend should be ended.

One thing the pandemic has shown is that schools important job is to be a childminding service so the workers can get back under the yoke.