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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

John Mann MP:

The 1988 lambeth corruption and sex ring investigation included allegations against several significant politicians

The 1988 Lambeth police files have clearly disappeared. As have the Notts police 1990s files and the Notts Social services files.

Edit apologies John Mann MP. from his Twitter feed. Got a 3 year old jumping on me which isn't helping!
 
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Barking_Mad said:
Peter Mann MP:

The 1988 lambeth corruption and sex ring investigation included allegations against several significant politicians

The 1988 Lambeth police files have clearly disappeared. As have the Notts police 1990s files and the Notts Social services files.
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There isn't an MP called Peter Mann. Or do you mean Met police? Can we have some links to where this stuff is coming from please?
 
Someone on FB has posted an article which links this whole thing into the murder of Jill Dando, as allegedly she had rumbled the game and was about to go public. The site has a distinct waft of fruitloopery about it, where any connection between individuals appears to mean they were part of a giant kiddy fiddling conspiracy. I don't buy into this level of collusion, I don't think the 'establishment' is competent enough to pull it off.
 
happie chappie said:
This is today's Exaro piece Elbows had referred to in Post 2827 above.

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5315/dpp-forced-scotland-yard-to-quiz-leon-brittan-over-rape-claim

A classic example of why the police cannot be trusted to investigate these matters.

As an aside, it appears neither Exaro or "Jane" were the source of yesterday's Independent on Sunday article about Leon Brittan.
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:mad::mad:

"As a result, the Met has replaced the officer in charge of the investigation"

So where's he now, I wonder?
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Just to reiterate something about the "Dickens Dossier" that Leon Brittan seems to have mislaid.

Dickens was a key figure in the 'Satanic Panics' see e.g. http://barthsnotes.com/2014/07/02/geoffrey-dickens-child-abuse-claims-and-satanic-panic/

Based on his witch-hunting activities contemporary with that dossier, I would be extremely sceptical about any allegations he was making.

There may be some real evidence but based on the rest of what he was up to at the time, there's also likely to be a lot "Satan ate my baby" stuff made up by fundie headcases.

edited to provide a more concise link.
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Given the tenor of a lot of claims at the time, "Satan ate my baby" is too tame. It'd be more along the lines of "I was a breeder for Satan, and the Satanic coven made me eat all my babies".
 
From 1995 Westminster's Secret Service Doc

"Tim Fortescue, who was Ted Heath’s chief whip from 1970-73, said:

For anyone with any sense, who was in trouble, would come to the whips and tell them the truth, and say now, I’m in a jam, can you help? It might be debt, it might be…..erm……erm, a scandal involving small boys, or any kind of scandal in which, erm er, a member seemed likely to be mixed up in, they’d come and ask if we could help and if we could, we did. And we would do everything we can because we would store up brownie points……., and if I mean, that sounds a pretty, pretty nasty reason, but it’s one of the reasons because if we could get a chap out of trouble then, he will do as we ask forever more.
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And we would do everything we can because we would store up brownie points……., and if I mean, that sounds a pretty, pretty nasty reason, but it’s one of the reasons because if we could get a chap out of trouble then, he will do as we ask forever more.
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But Britain isn't corrupt, its only those southern countries and the eyties who do that

So the whips would see the individual would be sorted and led out of the mess, in return, the whips would always be able to 'call on political favours'

democracy, eh?
 
Reminds me a bit of the Belgian case in the nineties.

There was widespread anger and frustration among Belgians due to police errors, the general slowness of the investigation and Dutroux's claims that he was part of a sex ring that included high-ranking members of the police force and government. This suspicion that Dutroux had been, or was being, protected, and anger over the outcome, culminated when the popular judge in charge of investigating the claims was dismissed on the grounds of having participated in a fund-raising dinner for the girls' parents. The investigation itself was wrapped up. His dismissal and end of the investigation resulted in a massive protest march (the "White March") of 300,000 people on the capital, Brussels, in October 1996, two months after Dutroux's arrest, in which demands were made for reforms of Belgium's police and justice system.

On the witness stand, Jean-Marc Connerotte (fr), the original judge of the case, broke down in tears when he described "the bullet-proof vehicles and armed guards needed to protect him against the shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth coming out. Never before in Belgium has an investigating judge at the service of the king been subjected to such pressure. We were told by police that [murder] contracts had been taken out against the magistrates." Connerotte testified that the investigation was seriously hampered by protection of suspects by people in the government. "Rarely has so much energy been spent opposing an inquiry," he said. He believed that the Mafia had taken control of the case.[9]
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Dogsauce said:
Someone on FB has posted an article which links this whole thing into the murder of Jill Dando, as allegedly she had rumbled the game and was about to go public. The site has a distinct waft of fruitloopery about it, where any connection between individuals appears to mean they were part of a giant kiddy fiddling conspiracy. I don't buy into this level of collusion, I don't think the 'establishment' is competent enough to pull it off.
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This sounds like a load of complete bollocks to me.

Sadly, this affair is likely to turn into a "Truth Seeker's" jamboree - especially given Tebbit's comments yesterday.

It won't be long before someone comes out and blames freemasons,"the joos" and/or shape-shifting lizards.
 
happie chappie said:
I agree prosecutions - particularly if they were successful, would be great and would at least go some way in securing justice for the survivors.

But I’m also interested in the role Leon Brittan is playing in all this.

The fact that news of his interview under police caution about an alleged rape has come out today cannot be a coincidence in light of the allegations about the missing dossier.

Tom Symonds, a BBC correspondent, today raised the question about the timing of the two events - whether they were linked in some way - but didn’t attempt to answer it. However, it was obvious he thought they were.

Leaving my tin-foil hat firmly locked in the cupboard, I’m not sure what the link is.

Is someone trying to discredit Brittan? Is it a veiled warning for him to keep his mouth shut? Is he being set up as some sort of fall guy to protect others?

Or is there something else that I’m missing entirely?
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I'm extremely dubious that Brittan is being set up as a scapegoat. Most of the rumours I heard about him back in the '80s at the Express were fairly sordid, but as usual lacked credible witnesses (newspaper lawyers don't tend to see damaged victims as credible" :( ), so the papers never published the stories (just as they didn't about the likes of Nutkins, Hall and Savile). What were the rumours about? Not unadjacent to "if it moves, fuck it".
If Brittan IS being set up as a sacrifice, then he's the perfect person to throw to the wolves if the rumours are in any way true, because the story will have legs long enough to keep the media occupied for quite a while, possibly while other stuff gets a deeper grave.
 
As an aside to all this, Danczuk's being a bit of prima donna with all this 'I won't name the mp who approached me, but I urge them to come forward' (the stuff before the select committee meeting). The whole problem about these 'networks' is the protected status of the powerful and the role of secrecy. However, while he's done great work on Smith, he can't quite shake off the idea that politicians deserve more respect than anyone else. Just fucking spit it out FFS.
 
Barking_Mad said:
Destroying those files is surely a criminal act? Let's hope someone knows who ordered it and speaks up.
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It'd only be a criminal act if they were destroyed wilfully to obfuscate future investigation (which is incredibly-difficult to prove), so even if they were destroyed for that sort of reason, no-one will be held to account.
 
Libertad said:
Whilst all around him are clamouring for a public inquiry Michael Gove "disagrees".



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oliticians-at-top-of-westminster-9587642.html

Ploughing his own furrow, but why? What possible objection could there be to an inquiry?
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I suspect that Gove is aware of the "house of cards" nature of private "immorality" at the palace of Westminster, and is worried that a public enquiry into the child abuse issue will inevitably lead (as skeletons get disinterred, and deals get done) to to other instances of corruption and immorality being uncovered that aren't related to child abuse, but which will (in turn) lead to public demands for further enquiries.
IMO Gove knows that the credibility of parliamentary politicians is already hanging by a thread, and he's worried that a full public enquiry will sever that thread and incite demands for wide-ranging political reform.
 
ViolentPanda said:
I'm extremely dubious that Brittan is being set up as a scapegoat. Most of the rumours I heard about him back in the '80s at the Express were fairly sordid, but as usual lacked credible witnesses (newspaper lawyers don't tend to see damaged victims as credible" :( ), so the papers never published the stories (just as they didn't about the likes of Nutkins, Hall and Savile). What were the rumours about? Not unadjacent to "if it moves, fuck it".
If Brittan IS being set up as a sacrifice, then he's the perfect person to throw to the wolves if the rumours are in any way true, because the story will have legs long enough to keep the media occupied for quite a while, possibly while other stuff gets a deeper grave.
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I merely posed the question about Brittan's involvement and, in particular, is there possibly a link between his allegedly questionable role in the handling of the Dickens dossier being made public, and the revelation that he has been questioned in relation to an allegation of rape, given both took place within a week of each other.

I don't know the answer but it does seem a little suspicious to me. That's all.

As to the type of rumours swirling around Brittan in the 80's I'm not going to repeat them here.

But if you mean by the phrase "if it moves, fuck it" he was rumoured to be an adulterer they were far, far more scurrilous than that, but perhaps I'm misinterpreting your comments. If so, apologies.

As an aside, IIRC there were some questions about his marriage at that time and whether it was merely one of convenience.
 
happie chappie said:
I merely posed the question about Brittan's involvement and, in particular, is there possibly a link between his allegedly questionable role in the handling of the Dickens dossier being made public, and the revelation that he has been questioned in relation to an allegation of rape, given both took place within a week of each other.
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It may be, with regard to Brittan, a case of "critical mass" being reached.

I don't know the answer but it does seem a little suspicious to me. That's all.

As to the type of rumours swirling around Brittan in the 80's I'm not going to repeat them here.
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I haven't asked you to. In fact I mentioned that I worked in the media back in the '80s, where such rumours were rife.

But if you mean by the phrase "if it moves, fuck it" he was rumoured to be an adulterer they were far, far more scurrilous than that, but perhaps I'm misinterpreting your comments. If so, apologies.

As an aside, IIRC there were some questions about his marriage at that time and whether it was merely one of convenience.
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When I say "if it moves, fuck it", think of someone allegedly playing a sexual game of "animal, vegetable, mineral" with all the self-control of a magpie in a jewellery shop.
 
ViolentPanda said:
When I say "if it moves, fuck it", think of someone allegedly playing a sexual game of "animal, vegetable, mineral" with all the self-control of a magpie in a jewellery shop.
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Ahh. I understand. I was referring more to what was alleged to have happened at the Elm Guest House. But perhaps they are one and the same thing.

The other point to note about Brittan is that there has been a consistent whispering campaign against him, dating back to the 1980s and, after admittedly a lengthy lull, another now.

I can’t recall any other Cabinet member (and, indeed, any other politician of that era) who was subject to such a campaign at that time although I stand to be corrected on that point.

Where there were rumours (sometimes well-founded) about the sexual impropriety of others, they generally centered around adulterous heterosexual relationships - not the kind of scurrilous and unfounded rumours surrounding Brittan.
 
Mark Williams-Thomas (the person who was instrumental in exposing Savile) has just said on Sky News that, while he has no evidence of an organised ring, he is sure that senior members of the establishment were abusing children and that other members of the establishment (and I paraphrase), "turned a blind eye" to it.

In light of recent developments the latter group "should be very worried" he added.
 
Dogsauce said:
I don't think the 'establishment' is competent enough to pull it off.
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ooer!

Finbarr-Saunders-006.jpg
 
Children were raped by monsters, it was covered up by the establishment.That should be all that needs to be said.
They should be vilified and hounded for their actions and crimes, instead they will talk their way out of it once again.
Things like this don't happen in Britain, do they?
 
Sprocket. said:
Children were raped by monsters, it was covered up by the establishment.That should be all that needs to be said.
They should be vilified and hounded for their actions and crimes, instead they will talk their way out of it once again.
Things like this don't happen in Britain, do they?
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Sadly, it's not as easy as that.

The abusers have to be identified which is no easy task in itself. Evidence has to be gathered and, if they are prosecuted, any conviction has to be on the basis of "beyond all reasonably doubt". Ditto for those who covered up their actions.

While my knee-jerk reaction is to string them up - with my rational head on I have accept we can't suspend the normal rules of justice simply because we find the alleged crimes abhorrent.

I for one don't want to see witch hunts.

I want to see proper, through, and transparent investigations.

Something that has sadly been lacking to date.
 
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