How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?
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angelraven
New Member
Something smells a bit funny about the politician being stopped story. I get that people can be pulled out of an immigration queue for acting suspiciously, but pulled over while driving a car? Must have been looking pretty suspicious behind that wheel! Didn't the customs officer recognise the politician before pulling him over? Seems like there would have to be a tip-off in that case (which is surely how customs catch most traffickers) - no-one is going to risk their career by pulling over a celeb just for 'acting suspicious'! And the implication behind "acting suspiciously" is that the politician was nervous about being caught. But why would he have been? The contents of a video tape can't be detected by random examination using a metal detector or sniffer dog. Unless again he suspected that they had been tipped off. And why look at his videos unless that was also the subject of the tip-off?
Much more prima facie plausible is the Russell Tricker story: known child porn trader is recognised and stopped; contents of his videos are routinely examined; whoa! who's that on the video? Of course this is not actual evidence that the latter story is true ... but I know which one I believe (if they are indeed to be taken as referring to the same incident).
Much more prima facie plausible is the Russell Tricker story: known child porn trader is recognised and stopped; contents of his videos are routinely examined; whoa! who's that on the video? Of course this is not actual evidence that the latter story is true ... but I know which one I believe (if they are indeed to be taken as referring to the same incident).
Lurdan
old wave
'Cover-up to protect politicians after abuse claims'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28477179
Doesn't seem to contain anything new.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28477179
Doesn't seem to contain anything new.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Before I make this link I'm not suggesting, legally or otherwise, that Farnell is one of the local politicians being investigated. Any Labour politician would, on the face of it have an obvious interest in pursuing Smith given that he was still the Liberal MP (though when the full story emerges, I suspect there will be some Labourites who either did nothing or formed strange alliances).
Anyway, who knew and who did what seems to be mapping onto the power struggles within Rochdale Labour group. Richard Farnell, who I couldn't fucking stand when I lived there, has returned as council leader, ousting Colin Lambert. Farnell is a Danczuk ally and Lambert a Jim Dobbin ally (next door Labour MP).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-27753679
Would you recognise all 650 MPs?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Apart from the confusion over the videos/stoppage - it was supposed to be a senior tory MP, an ex-minister in fact. So not really any need to be able to recognise all 650 MPs.
angelraven
New Member
If it is the same incident he is supposed to have been a Cabinet minister. Moreover the customs official is quoted as saying that he was able to confirm his identity from his passport - which to me suggests he initially recognised him and then saw his name on the passport. I realise that this is not necessarily implied by the words, but that is what it suggests.
Moreover if a cabinet minister (or even recent ex-cabinet-minister) were pulled over for no very good reason, one would imagine there would be a certain amount of "Don't you know who I am?" and one would also imagine that this would normally work. I am not saying that this story is wrong, just that if he was the one pulled over, it was not just for "acting suspiciously": there must have been a tip-off. And since this one detail is obvious bollocks, it does call the whole story into question to some extent.
Again, could you recognise all the cabinet ministers? I can't. And there are often people who look very similar.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Senior cabinet ministers, yes, of course. And with a passport to confirm.
angelraven
New Member
Yes, the question of whether he initially recognised him is irrelevant actually, because the first thing they do when they pull you over on a spot check is to look at your passport. Put yourself in the customs officer's shoes: you look at his passport (assuming you hadn't recognised him already), and see that he is a cabinet minister, or used to be. Do you then then (a) say "Have a very nice day, sir" or (b) start going through his bags and watching his videos, based purely on your hunch that he was "acting suspiciously"? Do me a favour...
Of course it's entirely possible that he was set up by the spooks. But the people behind this side of the story are holding something back in that case.
Of course it's entirely possible that he was set up by the spooks. But the people behind this side of the story are holding something back in that case.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Perhaps you're not familiar with customs procedures at ports in the '70s and '80s. I have the misfortune to have been. Random (and that's what they were, random - most tip-off stops were and possibly still are, cleared through customs, and then busted during a road stop) stops and searches of both foot and vehicle traffic was absolutely commonplace, regardless of what you were driving, or how you were dressed. The other thing is, customs were always very thorough. They'd even flick through the individual pages of books in your luggage or car (until the mid '80s, import and export of currency over a certain amount was an offence, and people often tucked banknotes into books, thinking it was a safe place to hide high-denomination currency), lift the carpet, feel the headlining etc, just on a routine random vehicle stop.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's also entirely possible that the customs officer felt that they couldn't back down and send the minister on his way, because he was acting suspiciously, and the customs officer acted altruistically, against his own interests.
As a psychologist, I'm sure you're aware that altruism informs many seemingly counter-intuitive actions?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
DLT is up for a retrial
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Have I got this right? Since Sloss is no longer running the investigation, and now it's the lengthy hols for our hard working Westminster servants, will it basically not be up and running till at least October? Maybe it will report in a couple of years or so I suppose.
"no stone left unturned" is one thing (and probably that special political classification of phrases known as "a lie"), but giving people a few more months to sort out their stories and throw down a load more stones is pretty useful.
Can't be so important I guess, and there's other stuff in the news now. It's only kids being raped and a big cover up, to think about it you wonder what the fuss was in the first place.
"no stone left unturned" is one thing (and probably that special political classification of phrases known as "a lie"), but giving people a few more months to sort out their stories and throw down a load more stones is pretty useful.
Can't be so important I guess, and there's other stuff in the news now. It's only kids being raped and a big cover up, to think about it you wonder what the fuss was in the first place.
angelraven
New Member
Can you give me an example of the kind of suspicious action that he might have been doing (probably in a car, remember)? Because I can't think of any. (At least none that would encourage me to put my career on the line by making me so sure of his dodginess that I would start rummaging through a cabinet minister's baggage.)
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well what are the details of the inquiry? The govt is appointing it not MPs. It's MP's on holiday not the govt.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
That's a reasonable point, but the sense of urgency seems to have gone out of the issue, not least in figuring who will even head it up. Now, maybe much is going on behind the scenes but maybe allowing it all to become part of a glacial-speed beauracracy is pretty convinient as well.
angelraven
New Member
Were you a cabinet minister? Sorry but I still can't believe that the same rules applied to them as to the little people.
I can appreciate that they would have done that, but it is still a big jump from that to watching a video. Because the latter would require going away from the car and thus a major delay for the minister.
Do you actually find the two stories equally believable, or do you just like arguing for the sake of it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't know who provides the sense of urgency - but that really is no excuse for not getting your facts right and jumping to conclusions about why and how. Of course, they will try and time anything to suit themselves best - quicker or slower - that's just standard. But we don't know which or why yet. We do know a number 0 if not all - of their motivations though.
angelraven
New Member
According to Exaro
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5332/theresa-may-to-consult-on-choice-for-new-head-of-csa-inquiry
May is taking her time with selecting the panel (including probably a survivors' representative) because she wants to avoid any more blunders on the lines of Butler-Sloss. B-S (ha! just noticed the acronym) was apparently nominated by Downing Street. Make of that what you will.
Ah well, if he gets away with it again at least the whole saga will have bankrupted him.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Just looking tense would be enough, and as for what you'd put your career on the line for, well, that's a reflection on you, but perhaps not illustrative of the population-at-large.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Could even have been a day to look out for 'posh' motors? Weren't there still currency restrictions back then? He might have been driving just the sort of car that was yielding 'hits' back then. My understanding was always that some spotters in Calais had already marked some outfits for going over once in Dover.
angelraven
New Member
Gotta love the gratuitous abuse on this site. Miaow!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
No, I was one of what you term "the little people".
Back then there was no special processing for "important persons" like there is now. Everyone went through the same processes (or lack of them, if you weren't randomly picked). In your world, customs officers would require access to a database of VIPs in order to avoid giving any of them offence by daring to search them. That wasn't something available to customs until the mid '90s.
How on earth do you think a lot of the individually-imported smut used to get caught at customs, if not through stop-and-search of suspicious people? Your canny pornography smuggler would strip the videotape from a master video cassette and mail it to the UK, then put it back in a cassette and copy it, he wouldn't take individual cassettes through customs, hence a male with unlabelled video cassettes = person of interest.
And btw, as a former Civil Servant myself at one time (among other things), I can state with confidence that most of us, given the opportunity to make a member of the government sweat, jumped at the chance. The great thing about being a low to middle-level Civil Servant was the fact that you had to fuck up absolutely-spectacularly/do a Geoffrey Prime before they'd sack or demote you, so if you were happy in your position...
I think that both stories are plausible, and of course I like arguing for the sake of it!
angelraven
New Member
The fact that the evidence got 'disappeared' after it was found, kind of illustrates the futility of doing a spot check on a well-connected VIP. You almost wouldn't want to find anything, because if you did, there'd be no guarantee it would go anywhere, and trying to make it go anywhere might well mean entering a world of pain. And if you didn't find anything, you've wasted their time and made a powerful enemy. Lose-lose. Just wave them through as soon as you recognise them.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yep, I made that point earlier. Your "posh" (i.e. mostly wealthier middle-class upward types) often tried on a bit of currency smuggling, because it was so lucrative. If you took more than the limit out, you could load up on Dollars, Swiss Francs, or on D-Marks, and then clean up at home, selling them at anything from 1.10 - 1.50 times face value.
yep.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The evidence has disappeared. This is fact.
That the evidence "got disappeared" is speculation.
It illustrates porecisely nothing with regard to the VIP because we don't know why or how the evidence disappeared, so your comments about futility are...well, futile. they too are speculation.
You need to acquaint yourself with Occam's Razor, and put away the copies of Nexus. I love conspiracising as much as anyone, but I always apply Occam's Razor when possible.
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