How do you stay full on a vegan diet?

[Karl Masks]

I'm really trying to make this work, but it's not good being hungry an hour after a big meal! The advice from the community (as far as I have read) is to just eat another meal. That seems a) counter intuitive and b) bloody expensive!

 

[Pickman's model]

Have a bag of chips

 

[Maggot]

Check out this thread: How do you stay full on a vegan/wfpb diet?

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm really trying to make this work, but it's not good being hungry an hour after a big meal! The advice from the community (as far as I have read) is to just eat another meal. That seems a) counter intuitive and b) bloody expensive!

What does the "big meal" consist of ?
What is your weight doing ?
On a previous thread you quoted a BMI of under 22 - which is very skinny unless you're an athlete...

 

[Karl Masks]

What does the "big meal" consist of ?
What is your weight doing ?
On a previous thread you quoted a BMI of under 22 - which is very skinny unless you're an athlete...

50g overnight oats, 30g blueberries, 100g chickpeas, 100g tofu, broccoli, 10g pecans, 20g flax, some sliced courgette.

largely in a bowl. Not some weird smoothie either. Comes to about 650 kcals.

I've no idea what my BMI actually is. I'm about 65kg maybe a couple of pounds above. Not overweight. Not esepcially skinny. Probably average bmi.

My weight isn't really doing anything.

 

[Karl Masks]

Check out this thread: How do you stay full on a vegan/wfpb diet?

sorry i forgot i posted that.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Generally it’s proteins and fats that help us feel and stay feeling full. Protein is quite well known about but people don’t tend to think of fats as so necessary, but they’re very important in appetite satiation and regulation.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Also you are more likely to feel quickly and temporarily sated after a meal if it’s all consisted of similar flavours, which has obvious implications for overall calorie consumption. If you eat a different type of flavour then you might realise you can eat more at that particular meal. There you go, the idea of the “pudding stomach” has a scientific rationale.

 

[kalidarkone]

I'm really trying to make this work, but it's not good being hungry an hour after a big meal! The advice from the community (as far as I have read) is to just eat another meal. That seems a) counter intuitive and b) bloody expensive!

What other kind of vegan meals do you eat?

I think if you have a grain ( oat groats, quinoa, rice, Bulgar, cous cous, cracked wheat) or pasta/ noodles or potatoes as your base,

then your veg + protein (tofu, tempeh, pea protein/ mushroom/ pulse/lentils/ bean/ nuts/seeds/Jack fruit items.

Fat and oil

Herbs and spices

A chart is handy.

Nutrition 123 – Vegan Easy

We can obtain all the essential nutrients we need without eating animal products. Nutritionist Dr. Amanda Benham makes it easy with 3 simple steps to vegan health.

www.veganeasy.org

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Having said that, if your “large” meal is only 650 calories then you may well just not be eating enough. Even multiplying that by 3 is only 1900, which is not going to be enough for the average man (sorry, I’m assuming you’re a man from the board name).

E2A: also are you making sure you’re supplementing vitamins that you can’t get from plant based diets?

 

[gentlegreen]

50g overnight oats, 30g blueberries, 100g chickpeas, 100g tofu, broccoli, 10g pecans, 20g flax, some sliced courgette.

largely in a bowl. Not some weird smoothie either. Comes to about 650 kcals.

I've no idea what my BMI actually is. I'm about 65kg maybe a couple of pounds above. Not overweight. Not esepcially skinny. Probably average bmi.

My weight isn't really doing anything.

Average UK BMI is now about 27. In 1980 it was 23 - so by any standards you are skinny - probably explaining why you consider that to be a large volume of food.

BMI i think is around 21-22? I'm 5'7 and about 65kg. My exercise level is rubbish. I try a half hour walk a couple of times a day. Don't really feel up to much else at the moment.
My waist size, last I measured, was under the 40 inch thing.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Having said that, if your “large” meal is only 650 calories then you may well just not be eating enough. Even multiplying that by 3 is only 1900, which is not going to be enough for the average man (sorry, I’m assuming you’re a man from the board name).

I don't know much about vegan food but I think Agent Sparrow is right there. 650kcal is definitely not a big meal.

That's the kind of meal size I'd be eating if I wanted to lose weight.

Potatoes are quite filling I find. Eat more spuds!

And nuts.

 

[gentlegreen]

Your maintenance calories are around 2,000 a day .. so what are you eating in total ?

The only calories I can't easily ignore in my own diet is the tahini I buy in bulk and I reckon that accounts for 1200 of my required 2500 - something I'm hoping to reduce to make room for more grain.

Calorie Calculator

This calorie calculator estimates the number of calories needed each day to maintain, lose, or gain weight. Learn the kinds of calories and their effects.

www.calculator.net

 

[Mrs Miggins]

50g overnight oats, 30g blueberries, 100g chickpeas, 100g tofu, broccoli, 10g pecans, 20g flax, some sliced courgette.

largely in a bowl. Not some weird smoothie either. Comes to about 650 kcals.

I've no idea what my BMI actually is. I'm about 65kg maybe a couple of pounds above. Not overweight. Not esepcially skinny. Probably average bmi.

My weight isn't really doing anything.

I'm going to say something that may be controversial here but perhaps stop obsessing so much about weighing everything you eat and just eat until you feel full. And then eat again when you're hungry.

 

[8ball]

sorry i forgot i posted that.

Zinc and B12 supplements can help with this.

 

[nottsgirl]

50g overnight oats, 30g blueberries, 100g chickpeas, 100g tofu, broccoli, 10g pecans, 20g flax, some sliced courgette.

largely in a bowl. Not some weird smoothie either. Comes to about 650 kcals.

I've no idea what my BMI actually is. I'm about 65kg maybe a couple of pounds above. Not overweight. Not esepcially skinny. Probably average bmi.

My weight isn't really doing anything.

Is that breakfast, lunch or dinner? Is it nice?

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Is that breakfast, lunch or dinner? Is it nice?

This is a good point.

 

[gentlegreen]

A typical recent large meal for me was a whole 500g bag of sprouts, a whole can of chickpeas (292 kcals), half a bag of microwave rice (212kcals) - plus tahini (750kcals ?) , chutney etc...
The whole lot in a serving bowl - at least a litre of water in there ...

Your veggie intake sounds like garnish.

But your weight is constant so you are clearly resisting eating more when you could probably safely gain quite a bit more weight with no health issues...

 

[Karl Masks]

Generally it’s proteins and fats that help us feel and stay feeling full. Protein is quite well known about but people don’t tend to think of fats as so necessary, but they’re very important in appetite satiation and regulation.

There are a lot of people who say protein should be low. The 80 10 10 vegans, for example (10% calories from fats and proteins, 80 from carbs). But that meal I mentioned has about 30g both fat and proteins (not total). Perhaps that's not enough. But as I said in the other thread I forgot i started, the meal i eat is hugely filling. It just doesn't stay full, and, if not proteins/fats, I don't know why?

 

[gentlegreen]

But as I said in the other thread I forgot i started, the meal i eat is hugely filling. It just doesn't stay full, and, if not proteins/fats, I don't know why?

Because not nearly enough of it is veggies.
I suspect there are things you aren't telling us.

As someone who has spent 20 years getting my weight down to where it was I want to know how you are managing to be so thin.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

There are a lot of people who say protein should be low. The 80 10 10 vegans, for example (10% calories from fats and proteins, 80 from carbs). But that meal I mentioned has about 30g both fat and proteins (not total). Perhaps that's not enough. But as I said in the other thread I forgot i started, the meal i eat is hugely filling. It just doesn't stay full, and, if not proteins/fats, I don't know why?

Maybe listen to your body. If what you are eating doesn't make you feel full for long enough, eat something else and forget about these rules.

Those rules are quite probably nonsense anyway and if you look around, you'll find some different "rules" that work better for you.

I dunno. "People" say that porridge for breakfast fills them up all the way to lunchtime. Not for me. I'm hungry an hour later

I'm quite old now and I've seen sooooo much diet "advice". So much of it is contradictory, based on nothing other than cod-science and usually based on selling you stuff.

The ONLY piece of good dietary advice I've ever seen and which I believe still stands to this day came from Michael Pollan: Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

 

[Karl Masks]

Average UK BMI is now about 27. In 1980 it was 23 - so by any standards you are skinny - probably explaining why you consider that to be a large volume of food.


View attachment 409123

I'm not skinny. So if what you're saying is true, then i'm clearly not bmi 22. But I can't measure.

As I'm speaking, I'm hungry again. I only had breakfast just under an hour ago. Same meal. It's crazy. Can't be a lack of nutrients. Must be something I'm not tolerating. Perhaps oats

 

[8ball]

There are a lot of people who say protein should be low.

…for some people with kidney disease, yes. Have you worked out how much protein you are eating per day?

If it is 3 of the meals you have mentioned, adding up to 90g total, then that’s a pretty healthy amount.

(Your BMI is 22.4 btw - I’m assuming you are an adult of European descent- weight 65kg and height 5 feet 7 inches)

 

[JimW]

Just don't have this problem. I don't take supplements either. Often skip breakfast and just have coffee. Possibly just luck of the genetic draw?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

There are a lot of people who say protein should be low. The 80 10 10 vegans, for example (10% calories from fats and proteins, 80 from carbs). But that meal I mentioned has about 30g both fat and proteins (not total). Perhaps that's not enough. But as I said in the other thread I forgot i started, the meal i eat is hugely filling. It just doesn't stay full, and, if not proteins/fats, I don't know why?

I dunno about them but I’m going on research regarding the biopsychology of eating and appetite regulation. 80% carbs seems a lot, and there’s research suggesting that high carb diets may be causing a lot of the problems that we used to attribute to high fat diets.

Often macronutrient advice is something like around half energy intake from carbs (give or take a few %) and the rest split between protein and fats, with a bit more fat.

 

[Karl Masks]

Also you are more likely to feel quickly and temporarily sated after a meal if it’s all consisted of similar flavours, which has obvious implications for overall calorie consumption. If you eat a different type of flavour then you might realise you can eat more at that particular meal. There you go, the idea of the “pudding stomach” has a scientific rationale.

Who knows. All I know is that no diet is going to work if you're hungry all the time!

What other kind of vegan meals do you eat?

I think if you have a grain ( oat groats, quinoa, rice, Bulgar, cous cous, cracked wheat) or pasta/ noodles or potatoes as your base,

then your veg + protein (tofu, tempeh, pea protein/ mushroom/ pulse/lentils/ bean/ nuts/seeds/Jack fruit items.

Fat and oil

Herbs and spices

A chart is handy.

Nutrition 123 – Vegan Easy

We can obtain all the essential nutrients we need without eating animal products. Nutritionist Dr. Amanda Benham makes it easy with 3 simple steps to vegan health.

www.veganeasy.org

That's what I've been doing. All big meals, three a day. I don't seem to be able to last. I was hungry all night after a huge dinner (too big really).

Having said that, if your “large” meal is only 650 calories then you may well just not be eating enough. Even multiplying that by 3 is only 1900, which is not going to be enough for the average man (sorry, I’m assuming you’re a man from the board name).

E2A: also are you making sure you’re supplementing vitamins that you can’t get from plant based diets?

I'm a very average man, but not desperately active. So I'm not sure the 2000kcals thing applies. Even so, that meal was almost too much in one sitting. You aren't meant to stuff yourself, that's what I've always been taught. It's staying full that's the problem. I don't think I could eat more in one sitting.

I do supplement: iodine, b12, I have some multivitamins I bought a while back that I might replenish (or just buy some vitamin d on its own), and some algae based omega 3 as there are some questions as to whether you can get enough from plant sources. I think I have that covered. I'm tracking using cronometer (wish i could link) and it all looks pretty good. Calcium is a touch lower than I'd like, but i bought some fortified milk. Honestly, I don't think nutrient deficiency is the cause here. THough I have no idea.

I don't know much about vegan food but I think Agent Sparrow is right there. 650kcal is definitely not a big meal.

That's the kind of meal size I'd be eating if I wanted to lose weight.

Potatoes are quite filling I find. Eat more spuds!

And nuts.

I have sweet potatoes for lunch. I mean i could swap out the oats for another, but oats are grains and I've broadly been following Dr Greger's Daily Dozen in order to ensure i get enough nutrients. It's a pretty easy system and he recommends 3 servings of grain, so i have oats for break, bread with lunch and wholewheat pasta with dinner. Not sure white potatoes are for me, havent really had them in years as they are really glycemic.

I do eat nuts. about 30g a day, at least as I end up snacking on them due to being hungry.

Your maintenance calories are around 2,000 a day .. so what are you eating in total ?

The only calories I can't easily ignore in my own diet is the tahini I buy in bulk and I reckon that accounts for 1200 of my required 2500 - something I'm hoping to reduce to make room for more grain.

Calorie Calculator

This calorie calculator estimates the number of calories needed each day to maintain, lose, or gain weight. Learn the kinds of calories and their effects.

www.calculator.net

I'd say about 1800. Probably a bit more.

I'm going to say something that may be controversial here but perhaps stop obsessing so much about weighing everything you eat and just eat until you feel full. And then eat again when you're hungry.

I do eat until full. Very full in fact as that's a large meal. The problem isn't weighing everything, which I've only been doing to take care of nutrient needs, but staying full. So either this is an adapation problem, or something else.

 

[8ball]

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I'm a very average man, but not desperately active. So I'm not sure the 2000kcals thing applies.

2000kcals is for women, men have higher metabolisms and I think average is nearer 2500kcals. So even if you don’t think you’d need that much, 1800kcals is almost certainly going to be pushing you into negative energy balance, if not starvation mode. I’ll look up what the “volunteers” were given in the famous Ancel Keys study about what happens when we don’t eat enough for our daily requirements.

Even so, that meal was almost too much in one sitting. You aren't meant to stuff yourself, that's what I've always been taught. It's staying full that's the problem. I don't think I could eat more in one sitting.

Maybe more meals then? Eating smaller meals more often is a valid choice for many people. But also fat is more energy dense so if you added more good quality fat to meals (hello avocados!), you’d be getting more energy from portions that seem the same size as what you’re eating.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Yep the Minnesota Starvation experiment gave healthy male participants 1800 calories, which was considered a semi starvation diet and caused a number of negative physical, cognitive and psychological effects.

 

[Karl Masks]

Zinc and B12 supplements can help with this.

I'm taking b12, as I said. I have a multi that includes zinc. If you are right, then I'm not sure what to make of tracking nutrients as cronometer is telling me I'm getting enough zinc. That meal alone has 52% of the daily amount. I guess bioavailability is an issue

Is that breakfast, lunch or dinner? Is it nice?

breakfast. It's nice, just not keeping me remotely full.

A typical recent large meal for me was a whole 500g bag of sprouts, a whole can of chickpeas (292 kcals), half a bag of microwave rice (212kcals) - plus tahini (750kcals ?) , chutney etc...
The whole lot in a serving bowl - at least a litre of water in there ...

Your veggie intake sounds like garnish.

But your weight is constant so you are clearly resisting eating more when you could probably safely gain quite a bit more weight with no health issues...

Not ure what to say, I couldn't have eaten a larger meal. My feeling is that the meal itself has the nutrients, it's just my body doesn't like it. But I'm not sure eating a larger meal is the answer, perhaps the composition. Maybe more fats/protein, less carbs? I was low carb before, not looking to go back.

At this point, weight isn't a priority. Being able to stick to this diet eating healthy foods is. Maybe the meal was too small, I just find that hard to believe. Dunno!

Because not nearly enough of it is veggies.
I suspect there are things you aren't telling us.

As someone who has spent 20 years getting my weight down to where it was I want to know how you are managing to be so thin.

What do you mean? Are you saying I should have more actual vegetables, as opposed to things like legumes/beans/oats? Aren't those the staples you need for things like protein and other nutrients?

What do you think I'm not telling you? If you want to know something just ask. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just struggling with this food. I'm no vegan expert by any means, and it's hard wading through all the internet/social media bS about nutrition. So many self professed experts all with differing opinions. What to make of any of it.

I dunno about them but I’m going on research regarding the biopsychology of eating and appetite regulation. 80% carbs seems a lot, and there’s research suggesting that high carb diets may be causing a lot of the problems that we used to attribute to high fat diets.

Often macronutrient advice is something like around half energy intake from carbs (give or take a few %) and the rest split between protein and fats, with a bit more fat.

seems a lot to me too. But there are plant based advocates/doctors/diet book peddlers who swear byt it. The Ornish diet, Dr McDougall's starch solution. The Esselstyn trials (Dr Caldwell Esselstyn claimed to use a low fat high carb vegan diet to reverse heart disease, same with the Ornish diet). These people swear blind that low fat high carbs is the way. I couldn't cope with that I don't think.

we know that unsaturated fats are healthy and that saturated fats and cholesterol are the problem. Or at least cholesteroal is a strong indicator of heart disease.
we know we need essential fatty acids

I'm eating a diet that's about 40/45% carbs, 15% protein and the rest in fats. More like a plant based mediterranean diet I guess. Just no meat/dairy. Perhaps that would be best for me