Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and what about your poor behaviour? seems to me it's innate.
Hillsborough Independent Panel findings and release of documents.
- Thread starter Fedayn
- Start date
The same trick has been tried on me, it's true, especially by you, but I managed better than Detective Boy to keep my cool.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
but have you anything to say about the topick at hand?
if not, you know you can always foxtrot oscar.
Piss off, Pick.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
we'll have to continue this thread without your contributions then. word to the wise: if you want to show respect for the dead, you'll stop posting shit like this ^^.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
My worry is that it will create animosity between the two fanbases/cities. Though I'm pleased (and proud, I worked in Liverpool for most of my working life and love the city and its people) to say I've not heard a bad word about us from Liverpool fans over this. Just hope none of the families see some of the prejudiced, insulting crap that's floating around on twitter etc. My hope is that it's just a knee jerk reaction and when people have read the reports they'll reconsider. I'm definitely not looking forward to the match on Wednesday though for fear of the arguments I'll get into.
Just started reading some of the source documents and watching the videos from the report. The links below come with a warning - they are very upsetting and those closer than me to the disaster might want to give them a miss.
This was the first one I came across and I don't mind admitting it had me in tears - particularly as when I first started going to matches the pens were still there and experienced some pretty scary overcrowding and pushing at times - there but for the grace of God and all that
This video's pretty difficult viewing too - it's of the crowd buildup and the events that led to the opening of the gates. Really brings home the fact that they were just like me - fans wanting to watch their team. As I watched it it dawned on me that some of the people I'm watching never got to go home, let alone go to another match
RIP
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
what he said.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
People mustn't underestimate the impact of the BBC's misreporting of the tragedy on the nation's attitude towards Hillsborough.
The initial reports on the day of the disaster said repeatedly that ticketless Liverpool fans got into the ground through a broken turnstile. A couple of minutes in to this video you can see this....
The Sun is one thing. The nation's most respected institution (tie with the NHS?) reporting this as fact would have been harder for most people to dismiss.
I love the BBC. Love it. It got it terribly wrong here though. I'm sure we can guess what their source was but you always think that their reporting on something like this has a basis in fact.
The initial reports on the day of the disaster said repeatedly that ticketless Liverpool fans got into the ground through a broken turnstile. A couple of minutes in to this video you can see this....
The Sun is one thing. The nation's most respected institution (tie with the NHS?) reporting this as fact would have been harder for most people to dismiss.
I love the BBC. Love it. It got it terribly wrong here though. I'm sure we can guess what their source was but you always think that their reporting on something like this has a basis in fact.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
is that to me? i quite agree, as i thought i'd made clear in posts 363 and 365.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
It was provoked in a way that could only happen with a former high level police officer turning up to a left leaning discussion board for bouts of apologism could ever achieve. Strange you think it was the community who somehow provoked him into posting here?
E2a: converstion over. Let's discuss corrupt police on another thread that isn't about corrupt police...
xes
F.O.A.D
BBC or the Sun, is does't matter, they're all propaganda. All mainstream media is. They will do anything to make scum police look like heros, and goverments can do no wrong. Unless they actually HAVE to print bad things about goverments, they won't. And they only do it to save face, otherwise their slant would become too obvious to the people who lap up everything they say.
Voley
🐀
Jesus, that's painful to watch.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
just one word: orgreave
Hollis
bloody furious
Why am I still reading opinions from people (on 38degrees facebook thread) saying it was the fans fault?
You only have to read abit of background provided in the opening of the report to see that there were massive problems at that ground and that end in 1981, and again in 1987 and 1988. It wasn't so much the crowds fault as the fault of Sheffield Wednesday and bad crowd policing on the day. You could say an accident waiting to happen.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
that's fuckedbook for youWhy am I still reading opinions from people (on 38degrees facebook thread) saying it was the fans fault?
This is one of those moments where i start off by thinking that the world has taken a step in the right direction, and those that can't see the police for what they are might have the scales fall from their eyes. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that in reality it is just one more step in the fight for justice by the friends and families of the deceased. And I'm still not convinced they'll get it.
There was a documentary made at the time by the First Tuesday team at Yorkshire TV, so I guess it was shown on ITV. I remember very clearly that it blamed the police because not only do I have a very vivid memory of the film but it was made by the brother-in-law of my boyfriend at the time.
I just found it on youtube - Hillsborough Disaster rare documentary 3 + 4
temper_tantrum
The beauty of the ride
Got to about page three, and have decided would be best to read when not drunk. Thank you for the link.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
temper_tantrum
The beauty of the ride
I had an argument with someone I thought was ok yesterday, still recycling the 'fans caused it' argument. Clearly had never been in a dangerous crowd control situation. 'If I was in that position I wouldn't have been pushing forward' etc. it made me want to cry with frustration, the ignorance even after the vindication had been published.
Yup.
And to add to weepiper's comment, the real brutality was the response from the Home Office. I know such things have to be handled with a sense of... I can't find the word, but the exchange reinforced, for me, the difference between those that live their lives and those that try and control those lives. A horrible read.
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