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Hillsborough Independent Panel findings and release of documents.

I think/hope things will change. Not because there is any will in the establishment for it but rather because of the advent of tech that allows any member of the public to photo or video events as they actually happened. Even so they are still employing every trick in the book to influence the narrative in the eyes of the public. The thing about it is now though is the tricks are much more obvious so although change will be resisted at every turn the mask has slipped for all to see and much more accountability will hopefully be bought about.
 
friedaweed said:
Just got in from the Vigil at St Georges Hall.
Under the cloud of lies and attempts at turning the blame on the fans that so closely followed the disaster no former memorial has ever felt like a real one, for me anyway.
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Its one of the reasons why many of us who were there have never attended one. The notion always felt wrong to me & I was always more comfortable remembering on my own, knowing that way at least my memorial was for the truth.

For all these years we've lived in someone elses lie & Im glad the truth is slowly, finaly coming out but I wont dance for joy like some are because that truth wont bring back the dead or make up for all the years of lies.
 
Ash Mahay said:
Its one of the reasons why many of us who were there have never attended one. The notion always felt wrong to me & I was always more comfortable remembering on my own, knowing that way at least my memorial was for the truth.

For all these years we've lived in someone elses lie & Im glad the truth is slowly, finaly coming out but I wont dance for joy like some are because that truth wont bring back the dead or make up for all the years of lies.
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That's fair enough and as someone unconnected to it all I still felt a bit like that yesterday. It's all a long way from getting justice and the odds of anyone serving time are still way under 50/50. Same time I saw yesterday as an unambiguous success for the campaigners and families. To keep going after all the knock backs they've had is brilliant. And if nothing else it makes the police official liars. As somebody said earlier, uncanny resemblances to what is still going on with Mark Duggan and Ian tomlinson.

To be honest, still keeping the police and other institutions in view, I hope it gets really personal now. Doorstep the liars, make sure they can't carry on with their comfortable lives/lies.
 
Balbi said:
Agreed Pickmans, this whole 'but this was ages ago' made me think of the Menezes, and the Tomlinson case. The difference being the media, and people's ability to record and share information, means its much harder to get away with. It doesn't stop them trying though.

I wonder how many SYP cases those amending officers were involved in are now really, really unsound.
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This is a point that all too often, senior coppers don't think of when mounting a cover-up.
Who suffers the shit when villains have to be released because one of the coppers who put them away is shown to be as big a liar as Billy Liar? The public, not the careers of senior coppers and pols, so that's alright, then. :mad:
 
Prosecutions a must

Richard Wells, who led South Yorkshire Police from 1990 to 1998, said charges were "absolutely essential" after a damning report into the tragedy.
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Whilsty I won't make the obvious point as to what he was doing as Chief Constable for 8 years it's interesting to see the cracks appearing. Rats deserting a sinking ship doesn't quite cut it. That senior/former senior coppers perhaps now realise that such is the utter contempt for them and their like that something needs done. No doubt he will claim it wasn't on his watch, I wonder who he thinks should be prosecuted....

DotCommunist said:
calls for the IPCC to investigate from labour

that wellknown and respected internal ffairs arm that has a reputation for getting its man :rolleyes:
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I think Jack Straw should be investigated to for his 'review'. I see he's been on a fair few media outlets today blaming Thatcher and her pals.... I think his own behaviour is worth looking at frankly the buck passing Pinochet rimming cuntshovel.

A reminder......

The investigation, by Lord Justice Stuart-Smith, concluded that while some alterations were made to police accounts of the disaster, these were "at worst an error of judgement," Mr Straw said.
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treelover said:
posts on local fora still saying ''lots of drunken fans were seen at the White Horse Pub'',

were there any, does it matter?
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I really don't believe that it does. I used to go to anywhere between 10 and 20 matches a year, either West Ham or Fulham, in the '70s and '80s, and it was pretty rare for drunk fans to cause trouble outside or inside the ground. Most people who'd had a few knew that if they showed they were pissed, the OB outside the ground would turn them around. Used to be far more trouble from sober hoolies.
The whole "drunken fans" thing is a distraction. Joe Public equates drunkeness with bad behaviour, and that perception was what made the police run with the story. That way it became about people who couldn't control themselves, rather than about coppers who failed to do their job.
 
The Press is still at it, now its disabled claimants they are demonising (surely one of the most blameless groups) and people are again dying, (google my tag) some committing suicide,
 
treelover said:
Post on local fora, with some very controversial points at the end...
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Not least because fences were already being advocated by UEFA Europe-wide back in the late '70s purely to stop pitch invasions during and after the game in a lot of grounds (you're probably old enough to remember the footage from the likes of Ajax, Barcelona and Juventus with weekly pitch invasions), and pitch invasions tend to have very little to do with hooliganism per se, more to do with over-enthusiastic fans.
 
Why am I still reading opinions from people (on 38degrees facebook thread) saying it was the fans fault? :facepalm:

"Des Senior: I think there were faults on all sides. The crowd for creating the original crush and continuing to push into the enclosures, the club for a poorly designed ground, and the police for failures of crowd control. I don't think pretending only one party was at fault is productive and it's more important to learn lessons than point the finger of blame. The cover-up is another matter."

"Robert Hugh Wrightson: I think this hysteria is ignoring the fact that had fans been better behaved prior to this disaster there would have been no need to erect the large fences and barriers to keep them off the pitch in the first place which is why they were trapped! So how can that be all the police and ambulance's fault?"

"Sue Doughty: the police didn't kill anyone. They were all killed by the actions of other fans and that must be hard to live with. Thanks to Mrs Thatcher for insisting against all objectors that stadiums must become all seater regardless of cost after that day"
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Mrs Magpie said:
Thanks for that clarification, it was the impression I got from listening to the news on the radio.

I know one thing for sure. Kelvin McKenzie's apology was incredibly hollow, decades too late and bearing in mind his previous arrogant pronouncements, I hope his career is finished. It would be a happy thing to see him on JSA
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I'd be happy to see him broken on a wheel.
 
shaman75 said:
Why am I still reading opinions from people (on 38degrees facebook thread) saying it was the fans fault? :facepalm:
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some pricks will always say something like that. Whether its because they hate all football fans or just scousers, who knows? There's nowt that can be done about idiots like them.

But there's no need to repeat their garbage and spread it further (even if you are having a pop at them while doing so).
 
If 'The Sun' is really sorry about 'the truth' headline 23 years ago - perhaps it should not print any copies of The Sun for the next 96 days - a day for each person who died - this would reflect a real apology which the families and people of Liverpool deserve.
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From CIF..
 
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