"Healthcare" in the US

[Ming]

Wow. He lied to a guy who's baby was in harms way. You have to give it to right wingers. They have the monopoly on lying and lack of empathy. Any righties want to throw in? ZippieRN ?

 

[CRI]

Not Healthcare, but health, and how it's declined in Flint Michigan, which still doesn't have drinkable water after how long now?

Flint’s lead-poisoned water had a ‘horrifyingly large’ effect on fetal deaths, study finds

The paper estimates that among the babies conceived from November 2013 through March 2015, “between 198 and 276 more children would have been born had Flint not enacted the switch in water,” write health economists Daniel Grossman of West Virginia University and David Slusky of Kansas University.

They found that “fetal death rates increased in Flint but did not change substantially in other areas following the water change.” The change in Flint amounted to a 58 percent increase in fetal deaths, relative to areas not afflicted by lead-poisoned water, a change the authors characterized as “horrifyingly large.”

 

[TomUS]

Looks like the Repubs are going to fail yet again in taking away health insurance from millions.

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) issued a lengthy statement Friday afternoon announcing his opposition to the last-ditch Obamacare repeal effort in the Senate, which GOP leaders were hoping to bring for a vote next week....
His opposition is a major setback, if not full-on death sentence, for the legislation. Senate Republicans can only lose two GOP votes and still pass the bill. Sens. Rand Paul (R-KY) and Susan Collins (R-ME) have also signaled they’re very likely to vote against the bill. The deadline for the Senate to move forward on the Obamacare repeal effort that passed out of the House is Sept. 30.

McCain Comes Out Against Last-Ditch Obamacare Repeal Effort

 

[Ming]

Looks like the Repubs are going to fail yet again in taking away health insurance from millions.

McCain Comes Out Against Last-Ditch Obamacare Repeal Effort

Hope so. Free at the point of delivery health care (yes rightwingers, i know it's not free) is just something we take for granted in the UK (and in Canada). Kind of a societal mind set. It's being privatised in the UK though. If Urban's still around in another 10 years (which i hope it is) you'll see real horror stories if we let it happen. US style personal bankruptcy. I urge any UK person to look at this video about the Naylor review/report. The Tories are going to use Brexit to destroy the welfare state. They're very dishonest and they don't fuck around.

 

[TomUS]

Hope so. Free at the point of delivery health care (yes rightwingers, i know it's not free) is just something we take for granted in the UK (and in Canada). Kind of a societal mind set. It's being privatised in the UK though. If Urban's still around in another 10 years (which i hope it is) you'll see real horror stories if we let it happen. US style personal bankruptcy. I urge any UK person to look at this video about the Naylor review/report. The Tories are going to use Brexit to destroy the welfare state. They're very dishonest and they don't fuck around.

I used to watch Cameron on PM's Questions bragging about how much his gov was spending on the NHS compared to Labour. So, he was just bullshitting/lying and they were planning to privatize much of it all along? Or is this something new with May and Brexit?

 

[CRI]

I used to watch Cameron on PM's Questions bragging about how much his gov was spending on the NHS compared to Labour. So, he was just bullshitting/lying and they were planning to privatize much of it all along? Or is this something new with May and Brexit?

Successive Tory Governments, at least since I've lived in the UK, have tried to chip, chip away at the funding, structure, staffing and quality of NHS services. Labour never reversed any of these measures, and in some cases, did plenty damage of their own. No party will come out and say, "we're ending the NHS" because they know most people on the furthest right of the right wing still support its existence. I think effectively, they've tried to make things so crap that people opt for private insurance and private care if they can and more recently, bring the service to the point of collapse in hopes people will buy their bullshit that it will only be better if it's fully privatised.

 

[CRI]

Hope so. Free at the point of delivery health care (yes rightwingers, i know it's not free) is just something we take for granted in the UK (and in Canada). Kind of a societal mind set. It's being privatised in the UK though. If Urban's still around in another 10 years (which i hope it is) you'll see real horror stories if we let it happen. US style personal bankruptcy. I urge any UK person to look at this video about the Naylor review/report. The Tories are going to use Brexit to destroy the welfare state. They're very dishonest and they don't fuck around.

The Tories are using "Brexit" to destroy as many aspects of public infrastructure and services as they can, and shift the locus of power to the Government and not the parliament, so no accountability. Privatise all the things = Make Tories and their backers richer, fuck off everyone else. This is why they are clinging for dear life to what anyone with an ounce of sense knows will be an economic, political and social disaster. Why the Labour Government (or at least most of the ones at the top) back the Tories on this and are determined to join the Charge of the Light Brigade is well and truly beyond me.

 

[Ming]

I used to watch Cameron on PM's Questions bragging about how much his gov was spending on the NHS compared to Labour. So, he was just bullshitting/lying and they were planning to privatize much of it all along? Or is this something new with May and Brexit?

Yeah. He lied. The Tories have hated the NHS and the welfare state since it's inception in 1948. Nye Bevan (a great man and the Labour minister responsible for the creation of the NHS) said, in relation to his negotiations with them over it, they were 'lower than vermin'. Famous quote that in UK politics. This is the issue i feel most strongly about politically. Anyway here's Michael Portillo (Tory and a previous boss of mine when they started to undermine welfare benefits and i was a lowly Admin Officer in a job centre) flat out admitting they lied (with a smirk on his rubbery face). Health and Social Care Act 2012. Andrew Lansley. Death of free healthcare in the UK. And Cameron specifically stated 'no top down reorganisation of the NHS' before the election. The Act i mentioned is the biggest reorganisation in its history and will lead to its privatisation. I also believe that Brexit is being used deliberately and with malice aforethought to dismantle the welfare state and restructure the UK's economy and society towards the interests of the hard right and their backers. You watch.

 

[Ming]

Wow. He lied to a guy who's baby was in harms way. You have to give it to right wingers. They have the monopoly on lying and lack of empathy. Any righties want to throw in? ZippieRN ?

Shouldn't reply to myself...but. Just context. First video is Jimmy Kimmel explaining about his son's health problems at birth. It's emotional.



Next is a Republican Senator (and doctor) lying to him about their next proposition for health care. I work in psychiatry. Part of my skill set is communication. In this case 'paralanguage'. It's something we all do but if your mindful and active in your listening and observation it can be very revealing. Verbal communication is only a part of overall communication. Look at Bill Cassidy's face and the disconnect between his smiles/eye expressions, the rhythm of his language and what he's actually saying (and compare it to Kimmel's direct responses and questions). And bear in mind he's lying to a guy who's infant son just almost died and he's (Cassidy) proposing a worse health care bill than the one that just recently got rejected. But to be fair to Kimmel he doesn't look like he believes him.

 

[Ming]

One other thing (to pre-empt). My concern with US healthcare (as a UK citizen living in Canada) is we'll get this gong show in the UK soon. Oliver Letwin said this:

Letwin: 'NHS will not exist under Tories'

The Naylor review/report. '2 for the price of 1 on the assets'. They're doing it right now as we speak. It took a world war to create the political space for the NHS and the welfare state. We can't do that again because of nukes. When it's taken away it'll never come back. We're living longer. Follow the money.

 

[Ming]

This might go on. But it's always good to see liars drown in their own output. Plus it's got a bit of 'take the gloves off'. Good man Kimmel.

Out of curiosity are there any 'business professionals' involved in 'maximising shareholder value to be true to our fiduciary relationship' and/or legal position relationship specifically with regards to the privatisation of healthcare and its provision who post here?



ETA: Or indeed any aspect of any company involved. 'I WASN'T ON THAT PROJECT!!!'. Yeah but i worked for Samsung Trading for two years looking at spreadsheets. Big profits from Indonesian 'Free Trade Zones'. Sweat shops. It was guilt that made me change my job.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I can't read this as anything else other than the Trump administration deliberately trying to do harm to our own citizens:

The Department of Health and Human Services will also shut down the federal exchange -- healthcare.gov -- overnight on the first day of open enrollment, Nov. 1. More than three dozen states use that exchange for their marketplaces.

HHS officials disclosed this information Friday during a webinar with community groups that help people enroll in Obamacare.

Outages occurred under the Obama administration, as well, but they weren't as frequent. Typically, the online enrollment system was only shut down for a few hours at a time and it was much less frequent than once a week, former officials said.

"There is just a really big question as to why this is happening," said Lori Lodes, former CMS communications director.

The current administration said that the maintenance schedule was provided in advance to accommodate requests from the groups that assist applicants.

Plan to shut Obamacare site during open enrollment draws critics

While a certain amount of downtime is inevitable. Putting this on weekends and evenings, makes it nearly impossible for some working people to access the site. I do not believe them when they claim that this is the lowest use times. Every organization I've ever worked for arranges their downtime in the wee hours of the morning on weekdays to avoid interfering with user access.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Another bit of horrific video of disability rights protesters being dragged from the capital today:

Disability rights activists arrested for shutting down health care repeal hearing

 

[CRI]

Another bit of horrific video of disability rights protesters being dragged from the capital today:

Disability rights activists arrested for shutting down health care repeal hearing

Jesus, that is grim. How can human beings with any shred of decency just sit or stand by while this happens?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

We skimmed by on preserving Obamacare by one whole vote. Although we know the Republicans will be back at trying to repeal it in the next session.

Here's another program that they're trying to trash. It's the CHIP program that provides care for pregnant women and small children. It's funding it set to expire on Sept 30 and naturally there's no move to renew the funding:

9 million kids get insurance through CHIP. Congress is about to let its funding expire.

 

[CRI]

We skimmed by on preserving Obamacare by one whole vote. Although we know the Republicans will be back at trying to repeal it in the next session.

Here's another program that they're trying to trash. It's the CHIP program that provides care for pregnant women and small children. It's funding it set to expire on Sept 30 and naturally there's no move to renew the funding:

9 million kids get insurance through CHIP. Congress is about to let its funding expire.

It's gone now.

 

[CRI]

FOCUS: The Most Important Legislation of My Lifetime

It is personal for me – I am dying from kidney failure. My insurance company would rather pay for dialysis three times a week than cover a transplant. I could go to Iowa City a few hours away from my house and get on the transplant list, but I don’t drive. I also could have gone on Medicare early and gotten the transplant in Des Moines at the hospital near me. I didn’t choose Medicare during the last enrollment period. The insurance company I had in 2016 covered a transplant at Mercy Hospital in Des Moines. I had no idea my new insurer wouldn’t cover an operation in Des Moines.

My last diagnosis before leaving California was borderline diabetes. If I had been able to keep my healthcare and be treated after I crossed the state line, I would not be dying today. I always say Obamacare saved my life. It did. I finally got insurance and began treating my diabetes. It was too late though; the damage to the kidneys was done, and the continued flaws in the private industry are preventing me from getting what I need – a new kidney.

He didn't get it.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

They couldn't do it any other way, so they put Medicare and Medicaid cuts into the budget and tax cuts. One of things this would do is to raise the age to get Medicare by two more years. A lot of people I know go through several years before they are eligible for Medicare wondering if they can pay the premiums and are glad when they qualify. This will give those people two more years of scrounging around, trying to keep their healthcare. It will also cut taxes for the top 1% by an average of over $200K. Its nothing more than a transfer of wealth from bottom to top:

219 Republican House Members Just Voted To Cut Medicaid, Medicare, And Public Education To Give Tax Breaks to Millionaires And Corporations.

Seriously, fuck these people. Fuck them.

 

[spring-peeper]

I think I need a break from US news for a while.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think I need a break from US news for a while.

LOL! You and me both!

 

[stupid kid]

Wow. He lied to a guy who's baby was in harms way. You have to give it to right wingers. They have the monopoly on lying and lack of empathy. Any righties want to throw in? ZippieRN ?

Kimmel is quickly becoming an occasional modern American hero. The best part about this time around is that while he actually has experience of the medical insurance system through his kid, his detractors all told him to shut up and leave it to the pros, even when he's citing key patient and hospital groups verbatim. Then both Graham and Cassidy admitted they didn't have a clue what the bill did or why, as a follow on to a chorus of almost every stakeholder slamming the bill as destroying healthcare.

There are a lot of useful idiots in the Senate and House if you happen to be a rich business owner who doesn't give a fuck about the rest of the country.

 

[stupid kid]

We skimmed by on preserving Obamacare by one whole vote. Although we know the Republicans will be back at trying to repeal it in the next session.

Here's another program that they're trying to trash. It's the CHIP program that provides care for pregnant women and small children. It's funding it set to expire on Sept 30 and naturally there's no move to renew the funding:

9 million kids get insurance through CHIP. Congress is about to let its funding expire.

I predicted that CHIP would fall, because the GOP have actually been in court trying to get it unfunded. And yet, the strangest thing happened, Rs and Ds managed to do a deal to keep it funded *AND* still failed to pass the bill to re-authorize CHIP funding. Not sure if it's deliberate incompetence or the routine Washington brand of "let's fuck everybody who needs help up the arse with a rusty nail gun for no real reason".

My kids both used it when I moved to Texas, helped my youngest with breathing treatments when she was ill, paid for the assessment by the neurologist who diagnosed her with autism. Covered my eldest's tonsillectomy.

Just googled it and it seems they are re-authorizing it, but slowly and with unrelated riders. So they're pulling the same trick private insurers pull - withhold services for no good reason, for a short amount of time, collect the interest, act like everyone owes you when you do the job you were supposed to fucking do without any drama or delay in the first place.

 

[stupid kid]

Out of curiosity are there any 'business professionals' involved in 'maximising shareholder value to be true to our fiduciary relationship' and/or legal position relationship specifically with regards to the privatisation of healthcare and its provision who post here?

My wife does client side insurance law - she fights capricious and arbitrary coverage denials, often pro-bono or ghost writing. It's worse than you can ever imagine. These insurers are scum. They have deliberately created complex bureaucracies backed with impenetrable legaleze to delay or deny treatment of people who signed up in good faith. In fact the legaleze is often just bullshit that flies in the face of fed law, state law and every other applicable rule or regulation.

I've had it out with a few health insurance true believers on the twitter. And fuck me these people are dense. They think that if no one is there to take a cut of the insane amount America spends on health through insurance, that somehow the providers all just cease to exist, because profit is somehow magically able to make companies more efficient than non-profit making entities.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

My wife does client side insurance law - she fights capricious and arbitrary coverage denials, often pro-bono or ghost writing. It's worse than you can ever imagine. These insurers are scum. They have deliberately created complex bureaucracies backed with impenetrable legaleze to delay or deny treatment of people who signed up in good faith. In fact the legaleze is often just bullshit that flies in the face of fed law, state law and every other applicable rule or regulation.

I've had it out with a few health insurance true believers on the twitter. And fuck me these people are dense. They think that if no one is there to take a cut of the insane amount America spends on health through insurance, that somehow the providers all just cease to exist, because profit is somehow magically able to make companies more efficient than non-profit making entities.

^Very much so.

I had an insurance company that would deny every single claim. I ate the first few denials. One was denied for a mamogram because I was under 40. Nevermind the fact that I had blood dripping from one tit for no apparent reason. I eventually figured out that they'd deny it, and then you had to write a letter protesting the decision. Then they'd pay it. They did this for every single claim. Its one of the largest health insurance companies in the US. I checked their website and they currently have 45 million enrollees. Can you imagine the rake they're getting just from playing that one game?

I would bet that your wife is quite familiar with this.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Well Trump just dropped the nuke on Obamacare. There's no way the insurance market will offer health insurance to low income people without these subsidies. This was done out of nothing but spite. Fucking moron.

President Donald Trump plans to end a key set of Obamacare subsidies that helped lower-income enrollees pay for health care, the White House said Thursday, a dramatic move that raises questions about the law's future.

The late-night announcement is part of Trump's aggressive push to dismantle aspects of his predecessor's signature health law after several failed attempts by Congress to repeal it earlier this year.

In a series of tweets Friday morning, Trump called on Democrats to reach out to him to "fix" the law, which he called a "broken mess."

He tweeted this last night, which shows he mostly did it out of spite:

"The Democrats ObamaCare is imploding. Massive subsidy payments to their pet insurance companies has stopped. Dems should call me to fix!" he tweeted.

So what does this mean?

Nearly 6 million enrollees, or 57%, qualify for the cost-sharing payments this year, according to the most recent data from the Department of Health and Human Services. The subsidies are expected to cost the federal government about $7 billion in 2017.

The uncertainty over the subsidies' fate was a key reason that many insurers are substantially hiking their rates for 2018 -- some by more than 20%.
Several major carriers dropped out of the individual market, unwilling to wait and see what Trump and congressional Republicans would do.

Trump will end health care cost-sharing subsidies - CNNPolitics

Years ago, I never really understood how everyone here could be so gleeful at the prospect of Thatcher's eventual demise, planning parties years in advance. So, anyone have any party planning suggestions?

 

[Sasaferrato]

I think it depends on where you ask. I went to a townhall meeting with my congressman and nearly everyone there was for single payer. They were a select group -- people who were motivated enough to go to a townhall meeting. I spent a while talking to people and nearly all of them had a horror story to tell. Some people were in wheelchairs and on medicaid and disability, afraid they would lose the benefits they need to live. Others had declared bankruptcy after a serious illness. Some where trying to get care for their sick kids.

The people who populate those online forums are largely healthy men who really haven't had to navigate the system. They're also people who have the time and the money to waste online. Once they have a real illness, their attitudes are likely to change. With how screwed up the system is, eventually even they will have to wise up.

That is true, healthcare at 30 is not really an issue, healthcare at 60 is a different matter.

For all that could be improved in the NHS, I'm bloody glad we have it. If I were in the US, the back, neck and cancer surgery that I've had over the years would be more than a quarter of million quid. Funnily enough, the VATS lobectomy would have bee $22,500, but the two laminectomies would have been $100k each. The neck would have been around $120k. No way on God's green earth could I have paid for that. UK costs are less, because there is no profit needing to be made in the NHS.

 

[CRI]

Maybe a ray of hope?

18 states sue over Trump-halted ObamaCare payments

A new multi-state lawsuit has been announced to stop President Trump from halting key ObamaCare payments to insurers.

Eighteen states and Washington, D.C., signed onto the lawsuit filed Friday in federal court in California, according to Sarah Lovenheim, a spokeswoman for California Attorney General Xavier Becerra (D).

On Thursday night, Trump announced he would stop making the payments, which led to an outcry from critics saying he was sabotaging the health-care law.

The complaint will seek a temporary restraining order, preliminary injunction and permanent injunction requiring the cost-sharing reduction payments be made.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

This is just a different twist on something that's been going on in farm country for a while. I remember going to the farm supply store to buy antibiotics that I knew were being used on both the animals and the people.

People Are Buying Fish Antibiotics Because They Can’t Afford Human Ones

 

[CRI]

This is just a different twist on something that's been going on in farm country for a while. I remember going to the farm supply store to buy antibiotics that I knew were being used on both the animals and the people.

People Are Buying Fish Antibiotics Because They Can’t Afford Human Ones

The Amazon reviews are funny, but really sad when you realise that self-medicating like this is probably the only option for many people. It's going to get more like this as well.

 

[stupid kid]

^Very much so.

I had an insurance company that would deny every single claim. I ate the first few denials. One was denied for a mamogram because I was under 40. Nevermind the fact that I had blood dripping from one tit for no apparent reason. I eventually figured out that they'd deny it, and then you had to write a letter protesting the decision. Then they'd pay it. They did this for every single claim. Its one of the largest health insurance companies in the US. I checked their website and they currently have 45 million enrollees. Can you imagine the rake they're getting just from playing that one game?

I would bet that your wife is quite familiar with this.

Indeed, that same largest provider is, from what I can tell, actually too large (don't think its illegal but they're pushing their luck) and has a bunch of associated entities where the relationship isn't quite clear. One such entity offered off-market no prior authorization plans, a huge deal for certain treatments.

For thw past couple of years my wife would get call after call about their retrospective utilization reviews, where they'd essentially deny treatment after the fact and demand money back that they'd agreed to pay. Problem is Texas actually has some ok laws here, they can't deny or review more than x days after treatment, maybe 30, and if they don't pay there's and automatic fine levied paid to the provider. Either they never bothered to look up the applicable state law or they just figured that so few people would call them on it that it'd be worth it, and we're talking about treatments that easily cost more than the premiums and max out of pocket 60-150k a year, so I understand that it's not a sustainable business model for them, but at the same time they're part of a multibillion dollar conglomerate that turns a profit year in year out. As far as she could tell these reviews are systematic and either triggered by paying a certain amount for a certain treatment or just hitting a certain amount of spend on the enrollee, which isn't legal iirc but also kinda hard to prove without years of work.

They've done things like getting non-doctors to oppose doctors opinions and then moved to getting general doctors to oppose multiple specialists determinations. They've gone so far as to have their assessors actually contact the enrollees parents, without properly explaining who they were or the nature of the communication, to find any possible reason to deny. She's hurt them through the automatic fines on a few occasions, gotten back a lot of money for providers. Shes gone so far as asking for a conference with their attorneys to try and teach them the law. Didnt happen. But we know there's a ton more of this going on and she's only one person. She tried to train another attorney to get this stuff but the law is apparently pretty dense and a lot of the subject matter just inherently dull and complex.