"Healthcare" in the US

[Yuwipi Woman]

There's charges for every piece of medical equipment and tests. So, say for example you need blood tests, there's a charge for the butterfly kit, blood vials and the cotton ball and tape, the costs of each test run and then whatever treatment is prescribed, so for example IV fluids (charges for each bag and line and the venflon connection) and painkillers. A trip to the emergency room for even a few stitches can be a few thousand dollars.

Saving to offset the costs just isn't feasible. The costs for minor injuries is already extortionate, anything requiring extensive investigation, treatment or operations will be prohibitive for all but the wealthiest.

Last year I took a two hour cruise through the emergency room for a bloody nose and it was nearly $2,000, when all of the bills came back. It didn't meet my deductible, so it was all out of pocket expense.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's an advantage for insurance companies to have charges being so high that everyone has to have health insurance.

It's also an advantage for capitalists in general, as providing a health plan is another pressure to stop workers leaving or challenging their conditions. It's one of those things that seems unthinkable in the U.K. - you might think "if I quit this job I'll be poor and might lose my flat" but you don't think "if I quit this job I or my children may just die".

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It's an advantage for insurance companies to have charges being so high that everyone has to have health insurance.

It's also an advantage for capitalists in general, as providing a health plan is another pressure to stop workers leaving or challenging their conditions. It's one of those things that seems unthinkable in the U.K. - you might think "if I quit this job I'll be poor and might lose my flat" but you don't think "if I quit this job I or my children may just die".

^This. That's why I don't think we'll ever see Medicare for All in my lifetime. If it wasn't for the fear of getting sick, a great many people would be free to leave their jobs.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

^This. That's why I don't think we'll ever see Medicare for All in my lifetime. If it wasn't for the fear of getting sick, a great many people would be free to leave their jobs.

Yeah. I see a lot of "rational" folk saying how much more efficient single payer or socialised medicine is in providing healthcare, as if this was an actual argument that addressed the goals of policymakers. Then they're regularly confused as to why this makes no difference.

In the U.K. maybe we could compare it to increasingly punitive sanctions against people on benefits, which lose more money than they save but are really aimed at people who aren't claiming the benefits. Older folk will tell you of a time when you could go on the dole and not only survive but have a bit of a life; I only barely believe this and younger people will think it's Harry Potter stuff.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Yeah. I see a lot of "rational" folk saying how much more efficient single payer or socialised medicine is in providing healthcare, as if this was an actual argument that addressed the goals of policymakers. Then they're regularly confused as to why this makes no difference.

I think a lot of people are starting to wake up to this point. I've been to a lot of meet and greet with various representatives over healthcare, and nearly everyone there walks away with the (correct) idea that these people do not represent the needs of the average person. They talk sympathetically to sick people in wheelchairs, all the while knowing that they're going to go back to Washington and screw them. If you pay attention long enough, you come to conclusion that lawmakers are in place to mediate between the 1% and everyone else. Their job isn't to represent *you*. Their job is to represent them, and make sure you don't cause too much trouble.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Yuwipi Woman your situation sounds horrendous. I have chronic health problems requiring constant medication (7 separate meds each day), stopping one of them could trigger a relapse potentially requiring hospital treatment within 48 hours.

If I was a US citizen I would live in constant fear of not getting the healthcare needed, plus the financial strain of an insurance policy. I don't know how you do it

I'm glad you don't have to deal with the US system. The time it takes to fill out the paperwork and deal with the bills is tough for a well person. I'm sure its all you can do to take care of yourself under those circumstances. I'm glad you have the access you need to get care.

 

[equationgirl]

Thank you, that's kind. But how do people with similar conditions cope in the US?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Thank you, that's kind. But how do people with similar conditions cope in the US?

They spend a lot of time and effort and money trying to navigate the system, and if they don't have the money, they get sick and die.

This is one of the things I was talking about that it's hard to appreciate growing up with the NHS. People get sick and die, surrounded by some of the richest people ever to live, because they don't have the money for healthcare. People are running gofundme campaigns for essential drugs without which they die but which they can't afford.

Of course people will borrow money if they can which leaves them in perpetual debt because of the absurdly inflated prices. I know people who've had to sell their houses just to afford antidepressants long-term.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Thank you, that's kind. But how do people with similar conditions cope in the US?

A lot of people have to go on GoFundMe to pay the bills. I've read that almost half of what is raised there is for medical bills.

Other than that, it just takes lots of time. Most hospitals have funds they use to forgive bills from indigent people, but those funds are often out of money or difficult to get access to.

People do die from lack of care.

 

[Orang Utan]

What happens if you have no insurance but have an accident that needs emergency surgery? Do they just let you die?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

What happens if you have no insurance but have an accident that needs emergency surgery? Do they just let you die?

They have to treat you in the emergency room by law. You'll get a huge bill when they're done, that you have no hope of paying, but they'll usually treat you. You might have difficulty getting follow-up treatment that's isn't an emergency. You might also get "dumped." That happens when they don't see anything obvious that's wrong with you. They'll give you a referral for care elsewhere and discharge you.

<edited to add>
I do know from personal experience, that you'll be asked for your insurance card, even if you have blood all down your front and you're holding a towel to the bleeding bits, before they take you in for treatment. Although, I will admit that I was then taken in immediately after that, before people who were waiting. They weren't bleeding all over the nice, clean floor.

 

[spring-peeper]

They have to treat you in the emergency room by law. You'll get a huge bill when they're done, that you have no hope of paying, but they'll usually treat you. You might have difficulty getting follow-up treatment that's isn't an emergency. You might also get "dumped." That happens when they don't see anything obvious that's wrong with you. They'll give you a referral for care elsewhere and discharge you.

<edited to add>
I do know from personal experience, that you'll be asked for your insurance card, even if you have blood all down your front and you're holding a towel to the bleeding bits, before they take you in for treatment. Although, I will admit that I was then taken in immediately after that, before people who waiting. They weren't bleeding all over the nice, clean floor.

Unless you are unconscious, you must show your health card before they will treat you. The provincial health care is free to those who qualify.
If you are staying in the hospital, or need tests not covered by provincial coverage, you are asked if you have supplemental health insurance. For me, that usually means I get a semi-private room over the four person wards.

Sadly, that is where the comparison ends. Our supplemental health insurance costs us $120 a month for 2 seniors.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Bernie Sanders introduces a single payer bill. It's DOA, but I do think progress is being made just in proposing it. You have to get people used to the idea. It also has 15 co-sponsors in addition of Sanders. This has been submitted at least three times before and there wasn't a single co-sponsor.

Inside Bernie Sanders' new 'Medicare for all' bill - CNNPolitics

 

[TomUS]

Bernie Sanders introduces a single payer bill. It's DOA, but I do think progress is being made just in proposing it. You have to get people used to the idea. It also has 15 co-sponsors in addition of Sanders. This has been submitted at least three times before and there wasn't a single co-sponsor.

Inside Bernie Sanders' new 'Medicare for all' bill - CNNPolitics

It's a start. It'll give the Dems something to fight for if they're willing to fight. The WH spokesbitch just said single payer is a "horrible idea."

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It's a start. It'll give the Dems something to fight for if they're willing to fight. The WH spokesbitch just said single payer is a "horrible idea."

I noticed that the proposed employer tax is 6.2%. I know what my boss pays and I'm certain he'd think 6.2% a bargain. I wonder if they can get business interested in supporting this in the name of lowering costs.

 

[TomUS]

I noticed that the proposed employer tax is 6.2%. I know what my boss pays and I'm certain he'd think 6.2% a bargain. I wonder if they can get business interested in supporting this.

Big business was fairly supportive of Bill Clinton's "Hillarycare." Single payer would take the burden off employers of providing health insurance. Of course the health insurance industry will scream socialism and fight it. If single payer doesn't make it, perhaps public option would be an acceptable compromise. Even that would be a big step forward.

 

[CRI]

Congress is extremely close to repealing Obamacare
Now, two key Senators are weighing the GOP's latest (and worst) attempt at repealing Obamacare.

I think people are exhausted with phoning, emailing and writing to beg their elected leaders not to do this. And, there's so much other shit going on to occupy folks' attention at the moment.

This might be the one that slips through, and that will be it.

Fuck.

 

[agricola]

It's a start. It'll give the Dems something to fight for if they're willing to fight. The WH spokesbitch just said single payer is a "horrible idea."

A shame her boss is on record, repeatedly (and including at least one of the GOP debates), saying it works.

 

[TomUS]

A shame her boss is on record, repeatedly (and including at least one of the GOP debates), saying it works.

As with everything else, his "position" changes weekly, daily, hourly.

 

[CRI]

As with everything else, his "position" changes weekly, daily, hourly.

Uh, Trump was probably just talking out of his ass when he said it, not understanding the question. Even if a few times he said "single payer" healthcare "works," that's not even close to advocating legislation to make it happen. It's just hot air, and surely everyone knows by now, he's absolutely full of that.

He ran on a platform of ending the Affordable Care Act, with no details of what would replace it. Most of the GOP legislators currently in congress did likewise, and they are determined to make it happen, come Hell or high water. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is they've been incapable of forming anything close to workable legislation. Oh, and hundreds of thousands of voters jamming their phone lines saying "don't do it," has given at least a few pause for thought, if only temporarily.

The only way Trump would support any form of "single payer" health care is if it involved a scheme that would line his pockets. Even so, that will never happen as the GOP congress are determine to abolish anything that even sniffs of "socialised medicine," which most see as unjust and immoral.

 

[CRI]

So, the new bill permits premium surcharges for pre-existing conditions. This is shitty.



And for reference, this gives an idea how much those premium surcharges could cost.

 

[agricola]

Uh, Trump was probably just talking out of his ass when he said it, not understanding the question. Even if a few times he said "single payer" healthcare "works," that's not even close to advocating legislation to make it happen. It's just hot air, and surely everyone knows by now, he's absolutely full of that.

He ran on a platform of ending the Affordable Care Act, with no details of what would replace it. Most of the GOP legislators currently in congress did likewise, and they are determined to make it happen, come Hell or high water. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is they've been incapable of forming anything close to workable legislation. Oh, and hundreds of thousands of voters jamming their phone lines saying "don't do it," has given at least a few pause for thought, if only temporarily.

The only way Trump would support any form of "single payer" health care is if it involved a scheme that would line his pockets. Even so, that will never happen as the GOP congress are determine to abolish anything that even sniffs of "socialised medicine," which most see as unjust and immoral.

TBH there is a lot more evidence for Trump being pro-single payer than there is anti, especially if you look at before he won the Republican nomination.

 

[agricola]

So, the new bill permits premium surcharges for pre-existing conditions. This is shitty.

View attachment 115869

And for reference, this gives an idea how much those premium surcharges could cost.

View attachment 115871

I think its fantastic that the US healthcare industry treats being successfully pregnant at 40 as being only slightly less risky than being a drug addict or having congenital heart disorder, and twice as risky as suffering from "major depressive and bipolar disorders".

 

[Streathamite]

I must admit, simply reading this thread makes me want to redouble my efforts to defend the NHS.
And to put up a statue to Nye Bevan, come to think of it.
Without them, I would certainly have been dead a long, long time ago.

 

[CRI]

TBH there is a lot more evidence for Trump being pro-single payer than there is anti, especially if you look at before he won the Republican nomination.

Sadly, even if Trump personally supports "single payer" (although I seriously doubt he genuinely understands what that means,) the chances of something like this being passed by a GOP led congress are zilch, so it's a moot point.

 

[CRI]

I must admit, simply reading this thread makes me want to redouble my efforts to defend the NHS.
And to put up a statue to Nye Bevan, come to think of it.
Without them, I would certainly have been dead a long, long time ago.

Absofuckingloutly.

 

[Ming]

The Naylor report. I've posted some vids on Bernie's 'Destroying the NHS thread' on UK politics. Please have a look. I spent 5 years as a nurse in the NHS and it breaks my heart to see what's happening. And yes i live in Canada but i still vote in the UK.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Sadly, even if Trump personally supports "single payer" (although I seriously doubt he genuinely understands what that means,) the chances of something like this being passed by a GOP led congress are zilch, so it's a moot point.

I can see a long-shot way this might go. If the Democrats retake the Senate or the House, then that would force Trump to work with the Democrats. If you look at recent history, he's gotten more done with Democratic support than with Republican. I could see him making a deal on healthcare with them that could lead to singlepayer. I shudder to think what the Democrats would offer up to get that from him, but I see it as barely possible. You have to remember, he's in this for his ego. Being able to reform healthcare would give him a yuge sense of his own power. He could jerk off to that for years.

We have seen strangle alliances--most recently, when Bill Clinton was President. He worked with the Republican majority to balance the budget, implement welfare reform, and repeal Glass-Steegal. It was all hugely bad ideas, but the example of moving across the political divide to make deals is out there.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I must admit, simply reading this thread makes me want to redouble my efforts to defend the NHS.
And to put up a statue to Nye Bevan, come to think of it.
Without them, I would certainly have been dead a long, long time ago.

I meant to ask, how did you joint replacement go?

 

[CRI]

I can see a long-shot way this might go. If the Democrats retake the Senate or the House, then that would force Trump to work with the Democrats. If you look at recent history, he's gotten more done with Democratic support than with Republican. I could see him making a deal on healthcare with them that could lead to singlepayer. I shudder to think what the Democrats would offer up to get that from him, but I see it as barely possible. You have to remember, he's in this for his ego. Being able to reform healthcare would give him a yuge sense of his own power. He could jerk off to that for years.

We have seen strangle alliances--most recently, when Bill Clinton was President. He worked with the Republican majority to balance the budget, implement welfare reform, and repeal Glass-Steegal. It was all hugely bad ideas, but the example of moving across the political divide to make deals is out there.

Yep, party loyalty is meaningless to Trump. His views just align more closely with the GOP, but yeah, I could see this scenario happening. Well, that is if he actually serves a full term.

Clock is ticking though, and I'm sure this is why the Republican congressbastards are trying so damned hard to push a repeal though while they know they still can