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Griffin and BNP strategy

e19896 said:
Thats how we deal with them:
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I'm all for a good ruck but I canot see how this sort of thing can in any way stop fascism in the current climate - most people aren't even aware of the BPP's existence and it has about as much political relevance as a row between two football firms. There was certainly a place for this kind of activity in the 80's and early 90's - With fascist electorial support at 1% and 2%, direct action frequently hampered the fascist's ability to grow. However for it to be the main focus of anti-fascist work today with BNP support so high is just plain wrong.
 
JimPage said:
Big blow for BNP in London- the 100,000 turnout at Victoria Park on Saturday. This dwarfed the turnouts of even the ANL Events of the 70s. I just cant see them getting anywhere in London in the face of this level of opposition
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YOU SERIOUS?!
 
I think that's a massive overreaction from Jim. He backed it up with more reasons in another thread (which i can't find now). We'll see soon enough though...

There are a v important series of local elections as well, ones which are the key to if the local strategy can move beyond temp protests votes.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
This event was preaching to the converted sadly. It will not convince one bnp voter. The reasons for their growth especially in the white working classes are not founded in ignorance but anger at the treason they feel that NL has committed against them by failing to right the wrongs of the 1980s.
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Give over - that's wishful thinking. It was a good event and you should look at it not as a one off but in the continuing spirit of anti racism and anti fascism. Who do you think will be part of any serious anti racist anti fascist mass movement? You got it - the people in that park will be part of it.
 
d.a.s.h said:
The number of people in a park has no relevance to people's willingness and ability to put an 'X' next to a name on a ballot paper. I predict the BNP will hold onto their existing level of support in the East London/Essex 'ethnic frontier' and may well build further on it.
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So that's going nowhere then.:D
 
Attica said:
Give over - that's wishful thinking. It was a good event and you should look at it not as a one off but in the continuing spirit of anti racism and anti fascism. Who do you think will be part of any serious anti racist anti fascist mass movement? You got it - the people in that part will be part of it.
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What bus did you get down?
 
butchersapron said:
Ok, did you go on sunday?
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Aye.

The below should keep the BNP vote lower than it might have been and show them up for being marginal/extreme...

Date: 28 April 2008
Source: The Northern Echo

Football clubs lend their support to keep out BNP
Lauren Pyrah

TWO of the region's football clubs have joined community leaders to urge people to keep the British National Party (BNP) out of the North-East in this week's local elections.

Campaigners from North-East Unites Against the BNP say the BNP is run by "hard-line Nazis" who deny the Holocaust happened.

Two of the region's Premier League clubs, Newcastle United and Sunderland, are urging people to use their vote to keep the BNP out.

They are joined in the campaign by the Bishop of Durham, actor Ross Kemp, and Sedgefield MP Phil Wilson as well as GPs, members of clergy and grassroots sports leaders.

Canvassers from the crossparty campaign are distributing leaflets in areas where local elections are taking place.

The leaflet says: "The British National Party tries to appear moderate and respectable but they are not.

"The BNP is run by hard-line Nazis who believe the Holocaust, in which millions of innocent people were murdered by Hitler's henchmen in the Second World War, didn't happen."

The pamphlet, which delivers the "Hope not Hate" message says the BNP is "jam-packed with criminals, terrorists and thugs".

It also alleges the BNP has met with racist organisations including a US neo-Nazi group, The National Alliance, and the Ku Klux Klan. It accuses the BNP of not respecting women after comments from one of their senior leaders, Nick Eriksen, deemed rape as a "myth".

And it says the BNP is unpatriotic as the party believes the UK should not have fought Hitler in the Second World War.

Last night, Labour MP Mr Wilson said he was proud to be part of the cross-party alliance against the BNP.

"What is excellent about this is it is the whole community standing against the BNP," he said.

"They have got to be exposed for what they really are.

"They are racist, they try to con the electorate by offering simple solutions to complicated issues and they talk about immigrants like the Nazis used to talk about Jewish people in the Thirties. The BNP has no place in our community."

A spokesperson from Newcastle United FC said: "We are very proud of the multi-cultural society in which we live and we have no time for those that discriminate on the basis of race or religion."

A spokesperson for Sunderland AFC said: "Sunderland AFC deplores any form of racism or anti-social behaviour and believes this has no place in our communities or society as a whole."

Ken Booth, North-East organiser for the BNP, said the campaign had been organised by "communist bully boys" in the Labour Party.

"It doesn't sound very democratic.

That is communist bullyboy tactics. It is all these communists hiding in the Labour Party.

"The Labour Party are behind it secretly. They are afraid of losing votes to the BNP."

He said the Bishop of Durham should leave politics alone.

"The Bishop of Durham needs to go on a Bible refresher course," he added.

He also denied the BNP was a racist organisation.
 
As a matter of interest - does anybody think that whatever the BNP does has an air of pantomime and the unexpected about it?

That's cos of the air of suspision and contempt they have from the media.

In other words everything they do, even standing in elections, is a stunt? Thoughts please.
 
butchersapron said:
I think that's a massive overreaction from Jim. He backed it up with more reasons in another thread (which i can't find now). We'll see soon enough though...
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Heres the post elesewhere, as to why i dotn think they will break through in London this time.

"No- they won`t get in .There is so much going against them. Their campaign has been better than before, but still only covered a small fraction of London wards.

Going against them is the strength of the opposition to them in London (100,000 at Victoria Park), Demographics are going against them. They are at 1% in the polls. It is unsafe for them to openly campaign accross half of London, any media coverage of them being as joke candidates, and they have had adverts pulled from the papers.

More than anything else, a very high turnout caused by the antifascist and muslim campaigners, has drilled home to people that a high turnout is the only way to stop the BNP and Boris. The BNP coming out in favour of Boris was the biggest own goal they could have scored.

My prediction, for what its worth, is on a 50% turnout, their vote will be up on 2004 in numbers terms , but in % terms will be slightly over 4%"
 
One thing- have just checked the bookies odd son Betfair as to whether minor parties will get seat or not. If i read the odds correctly....

BNP are 5-1 ON to get a seat
Respect are 2-1 AGAINST to get a seat
UKIP are 2-1 ON to get a seat

So i may be hideously wrong
 
JimPage said:
the strength of the opposition to them in London (100,000 at Victoria Park),
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I'm afraid I think you've misread what happened. For a start there were nothing like 100,000 people there, but more to the point, by and large they gave no indication whatsover they were there for political reasons. Read the main thread here- the first couple of hundred posts are entirely about music with zero political content.

The ANL rallies 30 years ago were political events with a focus on music: the thing on sunday was a tired music consumerist show with a few politico's bellowing into microphones and the usual suspects handing out leaflets to people who weren't even remotely interested.
 
newbie said:
I'm afraid I think you've misread what happened. For a start there were nothing like 100,000 people there, but more to the point, by and large they gave no indication whatsover they were there for political reasons. Read the main thread here- the first couple of hundred posts are entirely about music with zero political content.

The ANL rallies 30 years ago were political events with a focus on music: the thing on sunday was a tired music consumerist show with a few politico's bellowing into microphones and the usual suspects handing out leaflets to people who weren't even remotely interested.
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what's more, many of those politicos had traveled from places a long way from London to be there.
 
Just a quick one - saw a statement on the fashwatch site about how fashwatch has been suspended (no date on it at all so dunno how long it's been up there for) 'cos BNP activity is considerably down for these elections compared to others. Reason given is infighting. Is this correct?

Imagine they're talking about across the country as a whole rather than just London.
 
JTG said:
Just a quick one - saw a statement on the fashwatch site about how fashwatch has been suspended (no date on it at all so dunno how long it's been up there for) 'cos BNP activity is considerably down for these elections compared to others. Reason given is infighting. Is this correct?

Imagine they're talking about across the country as a whole rather than just London.
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Total bull, and I would expect better of Antifa. They are fighting their highest % of seats up for grabs ever- well over 600. Their infighting has affected their number of seats in soem areas, btu in most has had little effect. An odd time to throw in the towel
 
JimPage said:
One thing- have just checked the bookies odd son Betfair as to whether minor parties will get seat or not. If i read the odds correctly....

BNP are 5-1 ON to get a seat
Respect are 2-1 AGAINST to get a seat
UKIP are 2-1 ON to get a seat

So i may be hideously wrong
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This is not looking good!

Latest Odds
http://www.oddschecker.com/specials...n/london-assembly-elections/bnp-to-win-a-seat

BNP 29-1 ON to win seat
Respect 5-1 Against to win a seat
UKIP 2-1 ON to win seat

It looks liek the betting fraternity know something- probably about postal voting returns on perhaps the Yougov poll in the Standard Tomorrow
 
JimPage said:
Total bull, and I would expect better of Antifa. They are fighting their highest % of seats up for grabs ever- well over 600. Their infighting has affected their number of seats in soem areas, btu in most has had little effect. An odd time to throw in the towel
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Not really. The application of the strategy pursued cannot be applied with any discernible affect outside a small number of wards. Given that they are standing in over 600 confronting them effectively in all is out of the question. And as it is practically impossible to tell which they might do well in (even the BNP struggle in this regard) more precision targetting is not a runner either.

The fact is despite all the tub-thumping on here and elsewhere 'no platform' hasn't been effective to any real degree for a decade and a half. Until the so-called anti-fascists come to terms with the fact that the BNP have to be challenged politically their growing occupancy of working class areas will continue to accelerate.
 
JimPage said:
Total bull, and I would expect better of Antifa. They are fighting their highest % of seats up for grabs ever- well over 600. Their infighting has affected their number of seats in soem areas, btu in most has had little effect. An odd time to throw in the towel
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Not antifa.

Thia friday is going to see where people are and how serious they are IMO.
 
both so called militant anti fascism ( antifa) and the ANL mark 2 strategy seem to have completly missed out on understanding euro fascism of which the BNP is a varient .. this fascism does not march on the streets or provocate .. it organises quietly in middle and working class communities and nowadays by email and internet .. to oppose this by militant anti fascism and festivals of predominantly middle class kids ( as vivky park was) simply does not work .. ..

tbh you would think that antifa people would note what ex RA/AFA people say ..
 
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