Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Griffin and BNP strategy

Some might want to catch this:

Archive Hour
A Rage in Dalston
Saturday 19 April 2008 20:00-21:00 (Radio 4 FM)

Alan Dein uncovers a little known story of postwar conflict. For four years after 1945, London and the South East witnessed vicious confrontations between the remnants of Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists and Jewish ex-servicemen organised in the 43 Group.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/archivehour/pip/ev26o/
 
Some might want to catch this:

Archive Hour
A Rage in Dalston
Saturday 19 April 2008 20:00-21:00 (Radio 4 FM)

Alan Dein uncovers a little known story of postwar conflict. For four years after 1945, London and the South East witnessed vicious confrontations between the remnants of Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists and Jewish ex-servicemen organised in the 43 Group.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/archivehour/pip/ev26o/

while it is good this camapaign is being covered again, it is hardly being 'uncovered'!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/43_Group

http://www.hackneyindependent.org/films/the_43_group_2000.html

http://www.amazon.co.uk/43-Group-Untold-Against-Fascism/dp/0903738759
 
does the bnp in wales tap into a anti welsh nationalist vein do you think?

Nick Griffin, when he was a leader in the old Political Soldier NF in the late 80's, was an advocate for full Welsh independence under the slogan "Europe of the thousand flags". Indeed the old National Front News of that time would run stories heaping praise upon the Mudiad Amddiffyn Cymru and Meibion Glyndwr groups!

He has moved on since then on this issue, as with most others, and I would guess the arguments used in places like Wales and Scotland would be those based around the supposed threat of non-White immigration.
 
I suspect that if the BNP do well in the local elections, then there will be an upsurge in AF/anti far right activity, particularly amongst young people. The dwindling SWP will organise big united front meetings (with no space for those who have a nuanced view on immigration, etc) where said young people are harangued into hyper activity, will be initially enthused, then become dissolussioned with the sects and then angry and finally pack it in, the eternal cycle continues...
 
I suspect that if the BNP do well in the local elections, then there will be an upsurge in AF/anti far right activity, particularly amongst young people. The dwindling SWP will organise big united front meetings (with no space for those who have a nuanced view on immigration, etc) where said young people are harangued into hyper activity, will be initially enthused, then become dissolussioned with the sects and then angry and finally pack it in, the eternal cycle continues...


I agree...A large Fascist vote could spur on anti-fascists to re-organise and re-assess, hopefully it will. However, this will present real problems as the nature of the fascist beast has changed. The old ANL relied on the Fascists marching, seeking confrontation through provocative meetings (Southall 79) and large and successful carnivals. The BNP no longer march and restrict their campaigning to solidly White areas so are a much harder target to hit. The SWP and their various fronts have always been terrible at engaging with people in their communities - they much prefer reaching people in the thinning band of highly Unionised workplaces, demonstrations and Carnival type events. Thus, the field has effectively been left on for the BNP. Fighting Fascism has always been far more difficult a proposition than fighting apartheid, the War, etc. There the enemies are in Pretoria, the Pentagon, Downing Street and are abstract and can be shouted at from a distance. Fascists, however, are down the local pub, campaigning on the High Street, in the Council Chamber, going door-to-door in the local community and, therefore, take a lot more physical courage to confront and clearer politics to argue against. The SWP re-launched the ANL in 1991. They never talk or discuss this venture today as it failed and it's been airbrushed out of history. The UAF looks like going the same way sadly.
 
Fighting Fascism has always been far more difficult a proposition than fighting apartheid, the War, etc. There the enemies are in Pretoria, the Pentagon, Downing Street and are abstract and can be shouted at from a distance. Fascists, however, are down the local pub, campaigning on the High Street, in the Council Chamber, going door-to-door in the local community and, therefore, take a lot more physical courage to confront and clearer politics to argue against. The SWP re-launched the ANL in 1991. They never talk or discuss this venture today as it failed and it's been airbrushed out of history. The UAF looks like going the same way sadly.

I found it a lot easier to smack tony lecomber,nick griffin etc than to get at PW Botha...I would have tried shouting but my voice is quite weak and im easily dissuaded by negativity passed on to me by my mother.
 
. The SWP re-launched the ANL in 1991. They never talk or discuss this venture today as it failed and it's been airbrushed out of history. The UAF looks like going the same way sadly.

Interesting that as a prelude to the Carnival this weekend, UAF have announced an "ANL March"

We really are going back to 1978 here. However, in 1978, the ANL were already impacting on NF votes- i cant see this happening of the last clutch of council by elections are anything to go by

One final by election to keep your eyes on in Hinckley this thursday (with ex NF Leader Mick Shore standing for the BNP)
 
Interesting that as a prelude to the Carnival this weekend, UAF have announced an "ANL March"

We really are going back to 1978 here. However, in 1978, the ANL were already impacting on NF votes- i cant see this happening of the last clutch of council by elections are anything to go by

Oh fuck! Talk about using a previously failed policy again. Back then the NF didn't really have a base now the bnp have loads.

Looks like the Carnival and the march is going to be one long festival of preaching to the converted that will do fuck all good outside.
One final by election to keep your eyes on in Hinckley this thursday (with ex NF Leader Mick Shore standing for the BNP)

I will.
 
Oh fuck! Talk about using a previously failed policy again. Back then the NF didn't really have a base now the bnp have loads.
.

Not true. At the 1977 GLC Elections before the formation of the ANL- the BNP were polling huge votes in individual parliamentary constituencies including some over 10% in Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Haringey and Newham. They were defeated within a year. The policy of the ANL Mark 1, Propoganda, Violence and Rock against Racism worked then, and with a few adjustments could work again
 
Not true. At the 1977 GLC Elections before the formation of the ANL- the BNP were polling huge votes in individual parliamentary constituencies including some over 10% in Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Haringey and Newham. They were defeated within a year. The policy of the ANL Mark 1, Propoganda, Violence and Rock against Racism worked then, and with a few adjustments could work again

But the bnp are far more widespread than the NF back then. Not sure about the violence now though. Back then although they polled highly in some constituencies they were far more associated with general thuggery than the bnp are now.

I think the bnp are more worrying than the nf as the bnp have a far wider appeal than just the sad meathead faction.
 
I'm assuming you are talking about class loyalties among the fash? If so;

What about later when they start to get a hold in middle class former Tory areas? Its not inconcievable.

Nah, i meant the NF had no roots and so could be blown away. The BNP have roots and can't. The battles of the next decade have been set.
 
Nah, i meant the NF had no roots and so could be blown away. The BNP have roots and can't. The battles of the next decade have been set.

aha thanks for that. This is the worry about the bnp as opposed to the NF. They've played the long community politics game and have done well for it sadly.

However, I do recall a bit more 'flags and deferrence' amongst the fash of my much younger days (couldn't help but meet them in Newham then) than is there with the bnp. So maybe there was a bit of residual class deference in the old nf which is not in the new bnp.
 
At it's height the NF had about 20,000 members. The BNP have about 7,000.

The NF had regular meetings, marches and street sales of NF news. NF was scrawled on walls in every part of the city I was at the time. There were certain pubs and areas you avoided. Political meetings and events were attacked on regular occasions. That included Labour party meetings as well as the Communist Party and SWP. Bookshops too.
 
At it's height the NF had about 20,000 members. The BNP have about 7,000.

The NF had regular meetings, marches and street sales of NF news. NF was scrawled on walls in every part of the city I was at the time. There were certain pubs and areas you avoided. Political meetings and events were attacked on regular occasions. That included Labour party meetings as well as the Communist Party and SWP. Bookshops too.

But although you have less members it was more noticable and less insiduous as the growth of the bnp. They've silenced the meatheads who made up the majority of fash activity at the time and are using the electoral route to influence.

Theres more votes in doing the community politics stuff and appearing to listen to the voiceless that the bnp are doing than shoving shit through peoples doors (at least until they gain any power). They've learned that so I think the bnp are more worrying than the nf of old despite the nf's propensity for violence.
 
But although you have less members it was more noticable and less insiduous as the growth of the bnp. They've silenced the meatheads who made up the majority of fash activity at the time and are using the electoral route to influence.

Theres more votes in doing the community politics stuff and appearing to listen to the voiceless that the bnp are doing than shoving shit through peoples doors (at least until they gain any power). They've learned that so I think the bnp are more worrying than the nf of old despite the nf's propensity for violence.

The violence is always there when it comes to fascist parties. Emphasis on electoral or violent methods is a matter of tactics rather than strategy. The same political outlook, social base and orientation often underlie both political thuggery and the suit wearing respectability of much of the extreme right. The organisations which constitute the two tactical faces of contemporary fascism also share members.
 
The violence is always there when it comes to fascist parties. Emphasis on electoral or violent methods is a matter of tactics rather than strategy. The same political outlook, social base and orientation often underlie both political thuggery and the suit wearing respectability of much of the extreme right. The organisations which constitute the two tactical faces of contemporary fascism also share members.

I couldn't agree more. The ballot box strategy seems to be working very well for them. I don't doubt that the thugs are still there ready to be brought in when necessary though.
 
At it's height the NF had about 20,000 members. The BNP have about 7,000.

The NF had regular meetings, marches and street sales of NF news. NF was scrawled on walls in every part of the city I was at the time. There were certain pubs and areas you avoided. Political meetings and events were attacked on regular occasions. That included Labour party meetings as well as the Communist Party and SWP. Bookshops too.

They had 17 000 menbers for two years tops. And no elected reps. The BNP has around 0o, has consolidated a 5000 plus membership and has extended it's reach to far more than the trad areas whilst picking up record numbers of votes.

Please, stop telling yourself and othersthis nonsense. Do you really think holding stupid rallies is the true measure of poltical importance? In 2008? Even Griffin is in advance of you then. Do grow up.
 
They had 17 000 menbers for two years tops. And no elected reps. The BNP has around 0o, has consolidated a 5000 plus membership and has extended it's reach to far more than the trad areas whilst picking up record numbers of votes.

Please, stop telling yourself and othersthis nonsense. Do you really think holding stupid rallies is the true measure of poltical importance? In 2008? Even Griffin is in advance of you then. Do grow up.

What are you on about? I thought I would add something to the one-liner you threw out and painted a picture of what kind of activity the BNP's fore-runners got up to back then with 17,000 members. Two years is a long time in politics, particularly of the nasty kind.

How this is indicative of me telling myself that holding rallies is a measure of political importance today escapes me?
 
Not true. At the 1977 GLC Elections before the formation of the ANL- the BNP were polling huge votes in individual parliamentary constituencies including some over 10% in Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Haringey and Newham. They were defeated within a year. The policy of the ANL Mark 1, Propoganda, Violence and Rock against Racism worked then, and with a few adjustments could work again

Disagree - It would be a disaster to copy the tactics of the 70's - Everything has "Changed Utterly". The 90's ANL (Mark 2 if you like) copied the tactics of 30 years ago, down to the same badges and slogans, and was a failure. It was effectively wound up and the SWP entered the UAF.

The BNP today has far more potential for real growth than the old NF which was hamstrung by blatantly fascist policies (as opposed to disguised ones), a strong Right wing alternative pole of attraction in the Tory Party, a still strong Trades Union and Labour movement which commanded support from large numbers of workers. Now, none of this exists. The old National Front enjoyed success for three brief years at the tale end of the Callaghan government, although it should be noted they never won so much as a Council seat (although a splinter did win two in Blackburn). From then on it was very much in decline. The BNP has been strengthening for the last decade and their ideas seem to be be gaining acceptance in large swaths of the population. I fear that we will reach a situation like that which exists in France and Italy, a fascist political force with a large core support impervious to opposition.
 
At it's height the NF had about 20,000 members. The BNP have about 7,000.

The NF had regular meetings, marches and street sales of NF news. NF was scrawled on walls in every part of the city I was at the time. There were certain pubs and areas you avoided. Political meetings and events were attacked on regular occasions. That included Labour party meetings as well as the Communist Party and SWP. Bookshops too.

You are right about numbers, but the modern BNP deploys it members in a radically differrent way than the NF, making them more effective. The nearest the NF got to getting elected was missing out in a Leicester in 1976 by about 60 votes in a ward.

They are also faced with, in some areas, a clueless antifascist opposition, which you could not say of the SWP in 1977- who devised the right tactics at the right time.
 
One wee rant about London antifascists. Last Saturday there were 3 pre- advertised fascist activities in London, the location for which was known beforehand for each, a National Front march in Eltham, a British Peoples Party meeting in Central London and a BNP Mass leafletting drive in Bromley. The first two received militant antifascist opposition, the third was ignored. Why?
 
One wee rant about London antifascists. Last Saturday there were 3 pre- advertised fascist activities in London, the location for which was known beforehand for each, a National Front march in Eltham, a British Peoples Party meeting in Central London and a BNP Mass leafletting drive in Bromley. The first two received militant antifascist opposition, the third was ignored. Why?

Presuambly because the so-called militant antifascists wouldn't have out numbered the fash about 10 to one!!!
 
They had 17 000 menbers for two years tops. And no elected reps. The BNP has around 0o, has consolidated a 5000 plus membership and has extended it's reach to far more than the trad areas whilst picking up record numbers of votes.

TBH I feel the BNP is where the NF should have been. I am not so sure at all about the support outside of traditional areas argument either.

Where? Given that Griffins dad was a TOry and a fascist there cannot be many places you can name... but what geographical area are you on about? Or do you mean social groups? DO tell.
 
BNP website just reports that first 4 big BNP billboards have just gone up in London

Just to remind everyone that Vandalism of these is absolutely, definately, completely, absolutely against the Law
 
Nah, i meant the NF had no roots and so could be blown away. The BNP have roots and can't. The battles of the next decade have been set.

I think this is an innacurate big brush you are using to gloss over the issue. In terms of numbers and effect, organisations come and go, but their cultural legacy is unmistakeable. NF was scrawled everywhere, and it was in the consciousness of a wave of 'lay racists', and still is, it is partly responsible for the current level of BNP vote. The difference is that the BNp have a p[olitical machine that can reproduce itself, but even here, it could still experience further divisions/splits and suffer downturns. It is not as straight forward as you want to make it appear. Certainly the overblown hyperbole sentence you ended with is ridiculous.
 
Back
Top Bottom