Griffin and BNP strategy

[butchersapron]

Well, by the same token who are you to tell me what it should be about? I've got the 1000 post thread and what it's been about to back me up. You?

Stop being petty then and make your thread if it's burning a hole in your pocket.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Well, by the same token who are you to tell me what it should be about? I've got the 1000 post thread and what it's been about to back me up. You?

Stop being petty then and make your thread if it's burning a hole in your pocket.

LOL were you drinking by any chance

And just to say again I'm only making a suggestion, not telling you anything.

 

[durruti02]

LOL were you drinking by any chance

And just to say again I'm only making a suggestion, not telling you anything.

hey you two .. its MY thread

 

[durruti02]

Where did I say that this thread is all about the endless listing of positive BNP results? This is just you being pedantic as usual. What I'm saying is that what is the point of endlessly listing positive BNP results when it's already been established to anyone with a grasp of reality that the BNP is doing well.

It's also fairly clear to anyone what the current BNP strategy is, it would hardly take a genius to work it out.

Also I haven't demanded anything, but it seems to give you a little kick to say I have. All I'm doing is making a comment.

It's easy to nazel gaze and talk about how the BNP are doing so well, and isn't it so terrible that the far left can't see what to do etc but a lot harder to suggest what can be done to use pro-working class politics to counter whats on offer from the BNP. And no-one on the left from RESPECT, to the SP, to the IWCA has come up with anything in this regards outside tiny pockets.

i do not disagree there should be threads on what to actually do .. but i thought we had had ones though the more the merrier!

.. i do think it is STILL useful to have a thread ( this) to list their current votes / initiatives ..

 

[audiotech]

Wellingborough BC Redwell West ward result (percentages in brackets):

Con 665 (59.01)
BNP 177 (15.71)
Lab 169 (15.00)
L-D 40 (3.55)
UKIP 39 (3.46)
Grn 37 (3.28)

Total 1127

On a slightly increased turnout the Conservative vote fell by exactly 18.5% and Labour by exactly 7.5%.

 

[JimPage]

I can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing by saying that they can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing.

i think because the majority of the left are still in denial about it. Look at Lnacaster Unity as a prime example, where they successfully con themsleves the BNP election results of recent times have been universally abysmal.

 

[Joe Reilly]

i think because the majority of the left are still in denial about it. Look at Lnacaster Unity as a prime example, where they successfully con themsleves the BNP election results of recent times have been universally abysmal.

Not forgetting the most consistent apologist for the conservative left on here - step forward General Attica.

 

[JimPage]

Facsist GLA Candidates nominated as follows
BNP Mayor of London
BNP GLA London wide list
BNP and NF City and East
NF Bexley and Bromley
NF Ealing and Hillingdon
NF Greenwich & Lewisham
NF South West

 

[JimPage]

Very little heard on BNP candidates outside London in May. Full slates in Thurrock, Southend and Basildon announced however

 

[The Black Hand]

Not forgetting the most consistent apologist for the conservative left on here - step forward General Attica.

What the fuck are you on Joe? Talk about in denial - is it jus cos I called you ultra left

If you really are looking the ideas I have position themselves to your left as autonomous anti fascism is both inside the labour movement and outside it, and the conservative left are to your right.

 

[JimPage]

Not forgetting the most consistent apologist for the conservative left on here - step forward General Attica.

And i could add that both the Searchlight and the UAF Main site have accidentally forgot to mention the Gooshays result last week.

 

[JimPage]

Especially for Attica who I think comes from thereabouts. BNP to fight 30 Candidates for the County Durham shadow authority elections in May

 

[The Black Hand]

Especially for Attica who I think comes from thereabouts. BNP to fight 30 Candidates for the County Durham shadow authority elections in May

Am i bothered - wankers the lot of them.

but thanks anyway jim.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Especially for Attica who I think comes from thereabouts. BNP to fight 30 Candidates for the County Durham shadow authority elections in May

Would seem the perfect opportunity to apply the 'anyone but fascism' approach (eg vote New Labour, Tory, Ukip) you would have thought. Afterall this is one of their weaker areas - up to now. Let's see if some of the big talkers on here, who urge others to follow an utterly failed strategy, step up to the plate - for once.

 

[The Black Hand]

Would seem the perfect opportunity to apply the 'anyone but fascism' approach (eg vote New Labour, Tory, Ukip) you would have thought. Afterall this is one of their weaker areas - up to now. Let's see if some of the big talkers on here, who urge others to follow an utterly failed strategy, step up to the plate - for once.

You haven't quite got what I am talking about yet Jim have you, or you wouldn't innapropriately put me into their camp.

Please read "Autonomous Anti fascism" from MAYDAY magazine issue 1 here;

http://platypus1917.home.comcast.net/~platypus1917/mayday_uk_issue1_win2007-08.pdf

Issue 2 has at least 3 articles on anti fascism in it or so I hear.

 

[butchersapron]

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=5489696

 

[The Black Hand]

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=5489696

Do you have a point?

 

[The Black Hand]

Look at this - a Labour party analysis of a borough's election results - no less than 6 hard left independent councillors.

http://labourinsouthshields.com/wards.htm

This rather pisses all over the IWCA national number of 4 seats - sorry that's not national is it, it is 2 wards in Oxford

 

[durruti02]

Look at this - a Labour party analysis of a borough's election results - no less than 6 hard left independent councillors.

http://labourinsouthshields.com/wards.htm

This rather pisses all over the IWCA national number of 4 seats - sorry that's not national is it, it is 2 wards in Oxford

not sure how you see the two counterposed

 

[butchersapron]

Nor how an internal Labour document that would describe anything left of blair as 'hard left' is either encouraging or accuarate. Still. It's all about the IWCA isn't it attica. A petty grudge carried on for 20 years is far more important to you clearly.

This, literally is all that this link says:

The Borough of South Tyneside is made from 18 Wards and is represented by 54 Councillors (3 councillors in each ward).

Labour 35, "Hard left" Independents 6, Progressives 5, Liberal Democrats 3, Conservative 3, "Soft Left" Independents 2

And what's worse - it's a labour party document. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Look at this - a Labour party analysis of a borough's election results - no less than 6 hard left independent councillors.

http://labourinsouthshields.com/wards.htm

This rather pisses all over the IWCA national number of 4 seats - sorry that's not national is it, it is 2 wards in Oxford

That would be this 'hard left' group - http://www.southtynesidealliance.info/5.html - the one which sought an alliance with both Tories and Liberals, the one which makes no mention of class politics...well done Attica.

Louis MacNeice

 

[The Black Hand]

not sure how you see the two counterposed

very easily. It is the 'dead left' or so we are told by you lot.

 

[The Black Hand]

Nor how an internal Labour document that would describe anything left of blair as 'hard left' is either encouraging or accuarate. Still. It's all about the IWCA isn't it attica. A petty grudge carried on for 20 years is far more important to you clearly.

This, literally is all that this link says:

And what's worse - it's a labour party document. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

No far from it. It's not at all about the IWCA Butchers you blind nobhed. You are part of the ever shrinking click which tries to big them up far more than they are - or deserve.

I merely put them in their objective place, which is ULTRA LEFT IRRELEVANCE.

YOU have no knowledge of the left at all in the NE and would be better knowing soemthing about the wide reaching radical left traditions of the area before dismissing such evidence so easily.

BTW similar documents are available from members of most of the big parties about all sorts of issues and people including this one so it cannot be as easily dismissed as you are trying to claim...

Ever greater bluster from you will never disguise your allegiance chosen in haste - rather than independent apriori investigation before an anti fascist position is taken which is my preferred route and the one I have clearly and openly pursued... and you know it.

 

[The Black Hand]

That would be this 'hard left' group - http://www.southtynesidealliance.info/5.html - the one which sought an alliance with both Tories and Liberals, the one which makes no mention of class politics...well done Attica.

Louis MacNeice

You lot are the ones pretending you are not left wing remember! Your memory fails you so badly.

'Sought' is the operative word here, and IWCA collusion with the status quo is well known so you are in no position to lecture me on that one.

As for class politics, they don't have to be so old left like you lot and put it in ABC simpleton simplespeak. Anybody who knows the area also knows the working class political hegemony doesn't have to come out with crass politics.

You are just aggravated cos somebody else is doing it better than you lot in ONE small area with no pretentions to a national approach. Ha hahahahahahhaahaha

 

[The Black Hand]

In short you 3 big hitters have just been hit for 6!!

 

[Louis MacNeice]

You lot are the ones pretending you are not left wing remember! Your memory fails you so badly.

'Sought' is the operative word here, and IWCA collusion with the status quo is well known so you are in no position to lecture me on that one.

As for class politics, they don't have to be so old left like you lot and put it in ABC simpleton simplespeak. Anybody who knows the area also knows the working class political hegemony doesn't have to come out with crass politics.

You are just aggravated cos somebody else is doing it better than you lot in ONE small area with no pretentions to a national approach. Ha hahahahahahhaahaha

Hello Attica; once again well done, you've got me...well apart from the following:

You are the one making claims about the Alliance being hard left; I was just pointing out this might be wide of the mark (my claim is that the IWCA is pro-working class).

You are the one always banging on about autonomy, so when you big up a group which, at its inception, sought alliances with both Liberals and Tories, it raises a smile. Perhaps at this stage of the game political independence would be a more realistic goal?

You are the one living in a ‘through the looking glass world’ where the absence of any mention of class politics becomes proof of 'working class political hegemony'; it might just be that there is no mention of class politics because the Alliance’s politics are based on the twin foundations of opposition to Labour and geography, neither of which has necessary class character.

All things considered, perhaps you should have gone and looked a little deeper into the politics on offer - i.e. done some research - rather than rely on a snippet of New Labour spin in a desperate effort to put one over on the 'irrelevant' IWCA. You might want to start by chasing down the accusations (coming from the right admittedly) that the Alliance promotes local business interests and is rather less than forthcoming about it's own internal goings on (promoting people as Alliance candidates, even though not registered with the electoral commission and without their agreement, isn’t too clever).

Go on have another go - Louis MacNeice

 

[The Black Hand]

Go on have another go Louis

There is class politics in there. I do not think it can be taken as spin either as they counterpose 'hard' v.s 'soft' left either side of Labour, they could have called them all soft for example if they are just looking for an oppositional pov.

The Alliance are just a variant of localist leftism who are feeling their way forward without illusions. You on the other hand are full of illusions. The Alliance are sympotomatic of the wider malaise within working class political forms at the minute.

I think we are best accepting we have different opinions the bit where you cling onto the IWCa as some sort of 'new left' by itself I find to be part of the old left assumptions about 1 teleological way forward. Do you not think those times are gone? it is clear to a lot of people they have, so how do you square that theory with your incessant bigging up of the iwca in a near religious way?

If we take the argument above as true you shouldn't replicate old left ways of doing politics, there has to be a substantial break with old ways of being too, rather than just your form - the visible politics.

 

[Roxy641]

Core voters?

Hi durruti02,

what I find even more worrying is the people that say that they voted for BNP as a protest vote. If people that would never dream of voting for BNP decide to vote for them that certainly IS cause for concern.

Roxy641

Article by Griffin is up on their website. I think it is important reading not only as they just polled 300k votes in local elections but it clearly states their strategy .. worrying reading, not just as this startegy is working but that the left seem incapable of understanding how and why it is .... obviously not going to link but not hard to find full article .. heres alot of it .. sorry for cut and paste ..

The conventional politics won’t go away, of course, indeed it is our aim to step up the internal education process which turns protest vote new recruits (and there are plenty of those to be signed up over the next month or so, provided they are contacted and visited promptly) into fully-fledged and well informed nationalists. It is only what we are going to be doing with those new activists and older ones alike that is going to change:....."

 

[Louis MacNeice]

There is class politics in there. I do not think it can be taken as spin either as they counterpose 'hard' v.s 'soft' left either side of Labour, they could have called them all soft for example if they are just looking for an oppositional pov.

The Alliance are just a variant of localist leftism who are feeling their way forward without illusions. You on the other hand are full of illusions. The Alliance are sympotomatic of the wider malaise within working class political forms at the minute.

I think we are best accepting we have different opinions the bit where you cling onto the IWCa as some sort of 'new left' by itself I find to be part of the old left assumptions about 1 teleological way forward. Do you not think those times are gone? it is clear to a lot of people they have, so how do you square that theory with your incessant bigging up of the iwca in a near religious way?

If we take the argument above as true you shouldn't replicate old left ways of doing politics, there has to be a substantial break with old ways of being too, rather than just your form - the visible politics.

1. Where is the class poltics? Just saying it's there doesn't make it so.

2. If you don't think the New Labour piece is spin, then my previous comment about you living in a 'through the looking glass world' is even truer than I thought.

3. What are the illusions I'm full of; let's have some detail rather than mere assertion.

4. I do not see the IWCA as 'some sort of new left by itelf'. Indeed I have said this numerous times before on these boards; it's one way forward, not the way.

5. I do not have a teleological view of change; indeed I have argued against such a view in lectures, seminars, conference presentations and published articles..oh and on here.

6. I do not incessantly big up the IWCA (religously or otherwise...I reserve my fevour for bigging up running http://www.dpfr.org.uk/album/2008/Skyline/slides/l10%20357.php); although sometimes I do try to correct some of your more outlandish posts...see above.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Joe Reilly]

As for class politics, they don't have to be so old left like you lot and put it in ABC simpleton simplespeak. Anybody who knows the area also knows the working class political hegemony doesn't have to come out with crass politics.

Or class politics. Or indeed any politics at all presumably? This bigging up of a cross class, cross party, eccentricity coupled with a pronounced faith in the ridiculous Lancaster UAF, reinforces the General's position as the strong man of the conservative left, at least on this site. Outside of Cr's wilder excesses of ore, has anyone ever appeared so consistently inconsistent and ridiculous?