Griffin and BNP strategy

[JimPage]

The sad thing about Gooshays is that the old IWCA branch there polled 27% in the 2002 Local Elections. This area was a sort of area where progressive working class politics, in recent history, was popular

And sorry to sound like a scratched records, where was any left canddiate to oppose them?

 

[cockneyrebel]

And sorry to sound like a scratched records, where was any left canddiate to oppose them?

What do you mean, there wasn't one. That's the problem I haven't seen anyone suggest a strategy where they can break out of a couple of areas. The SP and IWCA are both only in 2 or 3 areas each and show no sign of expanding into other areas at a time when the BNP are having no problem doing so. All I've seen people do is moan on about the far left.

Thought this bit on the Lancaster UAF blog might have been written by Julie Waterson.....

if they noticed the work-shy Chav at all.

 

[butchersapron]

Just did a quick tot-up of the BNPs results from local elections last may until today - over 50+ wards they're averaging 13.5% - the overwhelming majority of these results are in places they've never previously stood, this is their first run out in them. And if i take out the 6 or 7 2-4% results then it's creeping close to 20%.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I can't really see the point in people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing. Why not take that as a given.

Surely it's more useful to actually suggest what can be done about it.

 

[butchersapron]

I can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing by saying that they can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing.

Don't then. If you're not interested is little bit of crude statistical analysis and would rather some crude 'fight the fash' propoganda then by all means pm attcia and start a thread. Otherwise - tough shit.

 

[butchersapron]

I can't really see the point in people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing. Why not take that as a given.

And it may have escaped your eagle eyed attention but no - it's 'not a given', not at all -that's why half the thread is about just this topic and why posting up stats is part of the internal argument as to whather they are or not.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I can't see the point of people putting posts up in response to people saying I can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing by saying that they can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing.

And where did I say we should have "bash the fash" propaganda? Examples on a postcard.....

Now obviously you can say tough shit, indeed that could be the answer to any point on any thread.

But we've established that the BNP is doing well, hardly anyone disputes that. Indeed they're doing far better than the whole left whether RESPECT, IWCA, SP or even the Anarchist Federation.

But once that's been established it doesn't seem to achieve much by repeating it over and over again. Why not actually suggest what can be done to change this.

 

[cockneyrebel]

And it may have escaped your eagle eyed attention but no - it's 'not a given', not at all -that's why half the thread is about just this topic and why posting up stats is part of the internal argument as to whather they are or not.

A couple of people on this thread might not, but generally I think most people do accept it whether on here or more importantly in the wider world.

 

[butchersapron]

Becaus this thread is about the BNP and their strategy and hence how it's progressing you dolt.

 

[butchersapron]

A couple of people on this thread might not, but generally I think most people do accept it whether on here or more importantly in the wider world.

Their are about 5 regular contrubutors to this thread -2 of them think the BNP are getting rolled over.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Dolt, that's a new one

That is what the threads about, but I would have thought that once we've established that their strategy is proving successful (and in electoral terms it's the best the far right in the UK have ever done by quite a way), then surely it's a good idea to ask what can be done about it.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Their are about 5 regular contrubutors to this thread -2 of them think the BNP are getting rolled over.

And given who those two posters are you really think it's worth convincing them that the BNP are doing well rather than be constructive about what you think the working class can do about the obvious success of the BNP?

 

[butchersapron]

Dolt, that's a new one

That is what the threads about, but I would have thought that once we've established that their strategy is proving successful (and in electoral terms it's the best the far right in the UK have ever done by quite a way), then surely it's a good idea to ask what can be done about it.

Well, there have been about 10 threads asking that that you could have contributed to instead of demanding that this one does it.

 

[peacepete]

what's to be done?

you could start by stopping their festival

http://nobnpfestival.wordpress.com/

 

[butchersapron]

And given who those two posters are you really think it's worth convincing them that the BNP are doing well rather than be constructive about what you think the working class can do about the obvious success of the BNP?

I don't think the two approaches are in any way opposed. This thread is doing a) you want it do B)there are already threads doing b) or you can start a therad doing b). Simple.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Well, there have been about 10 threads asking that that you could have contributed to instead of demanding that this one does it.

I'm not demanding anything. Just saying that anyone who thinks that the BNP isn't having success is, in your words, a dolt. So I would have thought it would be good to look at what can be done about their strategy. Or we could just endlessly keep repeating that they're doing well.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I don't think the two approaches are in any way opposed. This thread is doing a) you want it do B)there are already threads doing b) or you can start a therad doing b). Simple.

From talking about how well the BNP are doing to an "approach" to my posting. It was only a suggestion

I did have slight trouble understanding the above paragraph though.

Apparently the BNP are having a big wheel at the RWB festival this year. Maybe a few posts on that might be useful in between posting one election result after another which shows that they're doing well to anyone but the most head in the sand "dolt".

 

[butchersapron]

Let's have some postive thoughts people! Aerobics at 9 too! I'm sorry but it's compulsory.

 

[The Black Hand]

I can't really see the point in people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing. Why not take that as a given.

Surely it's more useful to actually suggest what can be done about it.

The thread has taken its form cos of the teleological 'bnp doing well = IWCA localism' you can find on this site. Incidentally I think the BNP are doing OK, for them, I do not think anti fascism is served by saying 'how well they are doing', but I do not think that leads to the political reductionism of the IWCA. Have you been following all of this Cockney - I thought you had. Look at Autonomous Anti Fascism in issue 1 of MAYDAY mag here; http://platypus1917.home.comcast.net/~platypus1917/mayday_uk_issue1_win2007-08.pdf

Issue 2 (May 2008) has another article looking at anti fascism and develops the area of autonomy idea against the deadend of RA/IWCA V. Searchlight mirror image opposites.

 

[The Black Hand]

what's to be done?

you could start by stopping their festival

http://nobnpfestival.wordpress.com/

Good call, i would hope there will be confrontation and not symbolic protest.

 

[The Black Hand]

I can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing by saying that they can't see the point of people responding to people putting up post after post about how well the BNP are doing.

Don't then. If you're not interested is little bit of crude statistical analysis and would rather some crude 'fight the fash' propoganda then by all means pm attcia and start a thread. Otherwise - tough shit.

This is a new wording of my username.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Let's have some postive thoughts people! Aerobics at 9 too! I'm sorry but it's compulsory.

It's nothing to do with positive thoughts. You can sit their until the cows come home saying "oh look the BNP are doing well", but if you don't come out with any ideas of how pro working class forces can counter their success then it becomes a bit pointless and you just end up nazel gazing.

 

[butchersapron]

It's nothing to do with positive thoughts. You can sit their until the cows come home saying "oh look the BNP are doing well", but if you don't come out with any ideas of how pro working class forces can counter their success then it becomes a bit pointless and you just end up nazel gazing.

So start your amazing thread about just that and don't demand that it happens on this already existing thead that's about something else.

 

[butchersapron]

Good call, i would hope there will be confrontation and not symbolic protest.

Yes, searchlight LUAF running around - working fine thus far.

 

[cockneyrebel]

So start your amazing thread about just that and don't demand that it happens on this already existing thead that's about something else.

Stop demanding I start another thread

And as said I'm not demanding anything, I'm suggesting something.

Also it seems strange that you feel it's ok to comment in a negative way about people suggesting ways to help counter the BNP but you don't think it's ok to give a positive way of countering the BNP.

I mean if all you're gong to do is endlessly list the on-going positive BNP results what is the point? It's just total nazel gazing and avoids the more difficult question of what anyone is gonna do about it.

 

[butchersapron]

That's right. All this thread is people "endlessly list[ing] the on-going positive BNP results". That's your base point securely established -well done. Thers's been no discussion of stratgey or assements and predictions etc it's just 'endlessly list the on-going positive BNP results'Please carry on with demanding that this particular long running thread suddenly conforms to your own needs rather than starting a thread along the lines which you want this one to run.

 

[The Black Hand]

Yes, searchlight LUAF running around - working fine thus far.

I think you are underestimating the potential turnout. They won't all be these sorts of clones, not by a long way. With the length of time they have to organise and resources at their disposal this time things could be interesting.

 

[cockneyrebel]

That's right. All this thread is people "endlessly list[ing] the on-going positive BNP results". That's your base point securely established -well done. Thers's been no discussion of stratgey or assements and predictions etc it's just 'endlessly list the on-going positive BNP results'Please carry on with demanding that this particular long running thread suddenly conforms to your own needs rather than starting a thread along the lines which you want this one to run.

Where did I say that this thread is all about the endless listing of positive BNP results? This is just you being pedantic as usual. What I'm saying is that what is the point of endlessly listing positive BNP results when it's already been established to anyone with a grasp of reality that the BNP is doing well.

It's also fairly clear to anyone what the current BNP strategy is, it would hardly take a genius to work it out.

Also I haven't demanded anything, but it seems to give you a little kick to say I have. All I'm doing is making a comment.

It's easy to nazel gaze and talk about how the BNP are doing so well, and isn't it so terrible that the far left can't see what to do etc but a lot harder to suggest what can be done to use pro-working class politics to counter whats on offer from the BNP. And no-one on the left from RESPECT, to the SP, to the IWCA has come up with anything in this regards outside tiny pockets.

 

[butchersapron]

So start a thread on just that instead of pointing out the obvious over and over ona thread not designed to do that. If you think this thread is pointless, then please, do fuck off out of it and leave the other posters alone.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Who are you to say what this thread should or shouldn't be about? Plenty of threads start on a certain subject and then branch out onto other stuff.

Anyway this is all getting a bit petty.