Griffin and BNP strategy

[ViolentPanda]

Lack of houses, services, etc. is the problem.

You'd still have social tensions. They're inescapable, but there'd be far less scope for them reaching crisis point.

 

[ViolentPanda]

so mass immigration is fine as long as we have more services?

You would justify, say, a million people entering the UK every year as long as there was enough services to provide for them?

How many people will have left the UK in this year of a million immigrants?

 

[audiotech]

How many people will have left the UK in this year of a million immigrants?

It's bizarre to hear those bleating about leaving Britain because of immigration, now being actual immigrants themselves in Spain and btw not in the main integrating, speaking the language etc. Ole!

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's bizarre to hear those bleating about leaving Britain because of immigration, now being actual immigrants themselves in Spain and btw not in the main integrating, speaking the language etc. Ole!

Well, quite!

My point is that some people focus exclusively on how "loads" of immigrants are "coming here", without ever bothering to reflect on the size of the differential between emigration and immigration, and often without reflecting on the permanency (or otherwise) of those emigrants and immigrants. To focus only on the one thing is either deliberate blindness, or ignorance.

 

[audiotech]

I think 'workfare' on the Australian model (a reality there) is indeed wishful thinking, as the costs are too great, however, for those on Employment Support Allowance (ESA) "work related activity" to "support them back into work" is here now.

Spoke too soon, as here we have Labour's policy review chief, Liam Byrne, planning to make unemployed benefit claimants work harder to find a job. These, based on 'new ideas, drawn from the Australian prime minister Julia Gillard'. Presently, for every vacancy there's 5.3 applicants.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/13/jobless-have-to-try-harder-says-labour.

Sorry, didn't mean to de-rail. I'll take it to the other thread on this.

 

[Stay Beautiful]

This can't be emphasised enough. The only time race becomes an issue is where it's made into an issue - See Kenan Malik's essayHow to make a Riot for a brilliant explanation of political multiculturalism and the racialisation of service provision.

People care about resources, access to and reliance on public resources are class issues. Tackling issues on that basis is the only way forward, getting bogged down in the race game is the mistake that the right make - they're the other side of the political multiculturalism coin. Class, class, class. It's literally the answer to everything.

I agree with the point on resources but the original poster also has a point. Some previously relatively homogeneous areas have been/are being changed rapidly by immigration. In the same way the tensions would be lessened through better resources, they would also be lessened if things had been slowly down a lot while everyone got used to each other.

 

[The39thStep]

I have come across and know about this group, nonetheless, the article in question is not specifically about Hizb ut-Tahrir, nor is it supporting them. If you feel so strongly about Lancaster Unity posting a lengthy article from The Independent, that includes a three line quote from said organisation, then I suggest you post your feelings in LU's comments section.

I thought you were the Urban branch of Lanacaster Unity but if you have no influence apart from cut'n pasting then I will take it up with your head office

 

[The39thStep]

It's bizarre to hear those bleating about leaving Britain because of immigration, now being actual immigrants themselves in Spain and btw not in the main integrating, speaking the language etc. Ole!

I think you will find that sadly emigrating to Spain isn't the phenonema it was.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I agree with the point on resources but the original poster also has a point. Some previously relatively homogeneous areas have been/are being changed rapidly by immigration. In the same way the tensions would be lessened through better resources, they would also be lessened if things had been slowly down a lot while everyone got used to each other.

In most areas it has been gradual. Those Northern towns where the BNP won council seats in the last decade, mostly they didn't suddenly have an influx of immigrants that tipped the social balance, they had an erosion of resources that was exacerbated by growing demand (through rising unemployment more than rising population) on those resources.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think you will find that sadly emigrating to Spain isn't the phenonema it was.

Not to Spain, maybe, because prices are normalising with those in the UK, and the pound buys less than it used to, but other places are taking up the slack. The Black Sea coastal regions of Bulgaria and Romania, for example, have sizable British expat communities, and Portugal is starting to suffer the same inroads as Spain.

 

[The39thStep]

Not to Spain, maybe, because prices are normalising with those in the UK, and the pound buys less than it used to, but other places are taking up the slack. The Black Sea coastal regions of Bulgaria and Romania, for example, have sizable British expat communities, and Portugal is starting to suffer the same inroads as Spain.

the Bulgarian and Romania ex pat communities are very small compared with Spain.

 

[Casually Red]

I agree with the point on resources but the original poster also has a point. Some previously relatively homogeneous areas have been/are being changed rapidly by immigration. In the same way the tensions would be lessened through better resources, they would also be lessened if things had been slowly down a lot while everyone got used to each other.

Is it likely there was any consultation with the community beforehand , before immgrants began to arrive in numbers ?

 

[audiotech]

I thought you were the Urban branch of Lanacaster Unity but if you have no influence apart from cut'n pasting then I will take it up with your head office

And I thought you had wit.

 

[audiotech]

I think you will find that sadly emigrating to Spain isn't the phenonema it was.

I've heard a number are posting the keys to their houses through the banks letterboxes.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the Bulgarian and Romania ex pat communities are very small compared with Spain.

Because they've only been developing for (quite literally) a couple of years, whereas Spain has been a destination for ex-pats since Franco karked.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And I thought you had wit.

I knew you were deluded, but I didn't realise you were that far gone!!!

 

[LLETSA]

Not to Spain, maybe, because prices are normalising with those in the UK, and the pound buys less than it used to, but other places are taking up the slack. The Black Sea coastal regions of Bulgaria and Romania, for example, have sizable British expat communities, and Portugal is starting to suffer the same inroads as Spain.

Fucking hell, if people were reluctant to learn Spanish, they've no chance with Bulgarian or Rumanian.

 

[Fedayn]

Fucking hell, if people were reluctant to learn Spanish, they've no chance with Bulgarian or Rumanian.

Romanian is a lot less difficult than Bulgarian and alot less difficult than people would think. It's also not really on the ex pat map as yet. My dad lives there and there's precious few other Brits, he reads the Ex pat stuff over there and it's nopt very widespread at all..

 

[ViolentPanda]

Romanian is a lot less difficult than Bulgarian and alot less difficult than people would think. It's also not really on the ex pat map as yet. My dad lives there and there's precious few other Brits, he reads the Ex pat stuff over there and it's nopt very widespread at all..

Checks length of Fed's incisors.

 

[audiotech]

I knew you were deluded, but I didn't realise you were that far gone!!!

It's difficult to be deluded about anything when presently having to deal with the DWP, but apparently I have "potential".

 

[audiotech]

Chaos in Wigan.

 

[The39thStep]

Review of Mathew Goodwins latest book ' New British Fascism' http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2011/06/1...-british-national-party-by-matthew-j-goodwin/

Painter is the co-author of Searchlights Fear and Hope report

Worth re-emphasising the point that has been made on here by a few of us that what ever happends to the BNP or EDL that the far right isn't going away and that the conditions for it to grow are very much favourable especially with no pro working class political alternative.

Good comment on the above website about immigration being a working class issue rather than a far right one.

 

[krink]

Chaos in Wigan.

bloke in middle with specs/dark hair - is that steve cougan doing his latest character?

 

[Joe Reilly]

Review of Mathew Goodwins latest book ' New British Fascism' http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2011/06/1...-british-national-party-by-matthew-j-goodwin/

Painter is the co-author of Searchlights Fear and Hope report

Worth re-emphasising the point that has been made on here by a few of us that what ever happends to the BNP or EDL that the far right isn't going away and that the conditions for it to grow are very much favourable especially with no pro working class political alternative.

Good comment on the above website about immigration being a working class issue rather than a far right one.[/QU

Fair dues, but the above review and possibly the book too veers away from the main issue: it is not as is alleged, mass immigration alone that is responsible for the rise to prominence of the BNP et all. Of course mass immigration plays a part, but it is that and identity politics combined, that is truly toxic to both working class solidarity and any potential political renaissance.

 

[Joe Reilly]

and[/I] identity politics combined, that is truly toxic to both working class solidarity and any potential political renaissance.

To clarify...

 

[The39thStep]

Haven't read the book yet but I went to a couple of seminars where he has spoken at. I think his main strengths are his portrayal of 'the perfect storm' and his analysis of BNP membership through interviews. His weakness is that he is a fairly removed academic and that he carts his stuff round who ever will use it. Both Searchlight and iCoCo have shared platforms with him although Searchlight clearly felt they had to bring their own project out I suspect to try and maintain their market influence in what was becoming a crowded market.

iCoCo have been instrumental in advising Labour councils and the previous govt on cohesion and when Connecting Co,,unities ( which was pretty much the far right version of PREVENT but positioned outside of counter terrorism). 'Manchester Day' is one of ICoCos projects for example.

You are right in that all of them skimp over identity politics , in fact Hope Not hate had a particular line on 'messages for women' that they were peddling last year /two years ago.

 

[The Black Hand]

Just came across this - I thought some of you maybe interested as its a guy I have not read.
28 March 2011
Richard Saull, Queen Mary London
Capitalist development and the historical evolution of the far-right

 

[Pickman's model]

thank you.

 

[butchersapron]

If only we had a time machine

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I think the nazis were looking into some kind of time machine? "Brotherhood of The Bell"? Maybe not, something jolly weird though. And the fash would be better spending their time looking into that than ways to hate other people and stab each other in the front.