Griffin and BNP strategy

[claphamboy]

Quick heads-up for the Urbans - this is strictly minor-league fare really, but these two videos show the "interesting" relationships amongst the BNP "top table" - meltdown, anyone? (They are lengthy videos, by the way):

Good find! It was clear the troubles within the BNP went to the highest levels, but to actually be able to watch a party get together like that, where Brons is clearly coming down on the side of the BNP Reform Group and Griffin is losing the plot completely is simply marvelous to witness.

That sounds very much like Richard Edmunds at the back asking about the plenary session during the 1st video.

Edmonds, of course, attended the first national conference of BNP Reform Group last year and is appealing for nominations on their website for his leadership challenge. **(see ETA below)

It should be interesting to see what happens over Edmonds leadership challenge, firstly as to whether, as I suspect, Griffin will start expelling even more members because of their support for Edmonds and/or against Griffin continuing as Chairman.

Secondly, when Edmonds fails in his challenge just how many more members, and more importantly active members, that are just hanging in there decides to finally fuck off.

In particular it will be interesting to see what Brons does, I get the feeling he's trying to position himself to lead any new party that could be established.

I see on the BNP Reform Group's website that in a poll asking if they should start a new party or reform the BNP, about 55% supports starting a new party, although this is based on only 301 votes.

Certainly interesting times.

** ETA: Oh hang, this isn't on the main bnpreform.com site, but on bnpreform2011.co.uk site, which looks totally different - are there 2 reform groups now?

 

[audiotech]

I see that Beverley (now EDP) at one point was whispering in Bron's shell like?

 

[Fedayn]

Beverley still works for Brons in the Euro Parlianent.

 

[The39thStep]

Meanwhile Barnbrook has propsed unity talks betwen BNP, UKIP and EDP . Nationalism without Griffin.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Meanwhile Barnbrook has propsed unity talks betwen BNP, UKIP and EDP . Nationalism without Griffin.

A non-Griffin BNP/EDP I can easily see happening. Would UKIP want to join that? Hmm, perhaps some UKIP members would be amenable to that, but what about the Farage, I wonder - would he be happy on an idealogical as well as practical level to thrown in his lot with the BNP and EDP?

 

[FreddyB]

I can't see UKIP wanting anything to do with it. They've got members with ideas and aims that chime with the BNP but sizeable proportion of their soft support voter base are anti EU no more, no less and they know it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Meanwhile Barnbrook has propsed unity talks betwen BNP, UKIP and EDP . Nationalism without Griffin.

Oh dear, another abandonment of the führerprinzip.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I can't see UKIP wanting anything to do with it. They've got members with ideas and aims that chime with the BNP but sizeable proportion of their soft support voter base are anti EU no more, no less and they know it.

Yep UKiP are a funny bunch to say the least and a substantial section of their active support are genuinely former supporters of Tories, Libdems, and Labour who while having many dodgy and/or rightwing views find the far-right objectionable to say the least.

 

[frogwoman]

Yep UKiP are a funny bunch to say the least and a substantial section of their active support are genuinely former supporters of Tories, Libdems, and Labour who while having many dodgy and/or rightwing views find the far-right objectionable to say the least.

yep.

 

[claphamboy]

& yep, again.

I know a couple of UKIP members, funny old buggers both of them, but they would soon dump UKIP if it got in bed with the BNP.

Besides UKIP gets far more votes based on the anti-EU policy, why would they risk losing their [semi] mainstream support by hooking up with out & out racists?

I know fuck all about the English Democratic Party, but with ex-BNPers joining them I guess there's a chance of sucking them in, maybe also the out and out nutters in the British People's Party and the *slightly* [so it appears] less nutty and new British Freedom Party, but lets face it both the BBP & BFP are tiny.

My gut feeling is the days of the BNP as a growing force, threatening even to become a fairly mainstream party, are over - it will take many years, if ever, to build a far-right party back to the *high* levels we were seeing them achieve not long ago.

For that, I thank Griffin.

 

[claphamboy]

I've just googled the English Democratic Party, is this - englishdemocraticparty.org.uk - serious?

FREEDOM FIGHTERS FOR A FREE PEOPLE AND A FREE WORLD
- DEFENDERS inc - ALEX JONES-PRISONPLANET.COM & DAVID ICKE
- DESTROYERS inc - ILLUMINATI & NEW WORLD ORDER

Did Jazzz set this lot up or is he just a member?

EDIT:

Oh, OK, there's the English Democrats Party and the English Democratic Party/English Freedom Party, very confusing.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Isn't Gary Bushell a member? At the very least he's written favourably about them. What happened to him by the way? He used to be a bit of a lefty didn't he?

 

[claphamboy]

Isn't Gary Bushell a member?

Or was...

2008
[edit] London mayoral election

In July 2007 Garry Bushell was nominated as Mayoral candidate for The English Democrats for the 2008 London mayoral and Assembly elections with the campaign slogan "Serious About London".[22] In January 2008 Bushell stepped down as the Mayoral candidate due to work commitments and Fathers 4 Justice founder Matt O'Connor was selected by The English Democrats in his place with his campaign expected to start on 14 February. His campaign web site voteenglish.org was launched on 31 January 2008.[23][24] A Party political broadcast for O'Connor's campaign was broadcast on 11 April.

One week before the Mayoral election, on 25 April, Matt O'Connor announced to Vanessa Feltz and the BBC that he was dropping out of the Mayoral race. He cited his reasons as being due to a lack of support within The English Democrats on St George's Day and lack of press coverage[25] as well as the party's cooperation with far-right group England First

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Democrats_Party

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The English Democrats used to look like a bunch of harmless bar room Tory cranks, now it does look they've been increasingly drawn to and absorbed by the fascist right.

 

[The39thStep]

There is plenty or room for a nationalist party to grow.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

There is plenty or room for a nationalist party to grow.

There's no doubt that there is substantial space for a populist, nationalist, racist movement/party to exist and help spread core far right ideas, despite the massive weaknesses in the BNP and EDL.

 

[audiotech]

The people needed to sustain any movement, as above, are in the tory party, where they will be staying put.

 

[The39thStep]

The people needed to sustain any movement, as above, are in the tory party, where they will be staying put.

Why the Tory party when most research show that it was Labour that was most susceptible to the BNP than the Tories?

 

[audiotech]

Research did indicate that, but I don't think that undermines the point I made?
Organisers of some ability are needed to sustain a movement.
Some stating in a survey that they would vote for it doesn't necessary sustain it.

 

[The39thStep]

Research did indicate that, but I don't think that undermines the point I made?
Organisers of some ability are needed to sustain a movement.
Some stating in a survey that they would vote for it doesn't necessary sustain it.

Lets just correct the mistaken belief that this is some survey about intentThe proof in the pudding was that ex labour voters did vote BNP rather than said they might in some survey and that it was the Labour heartlands which were hit the most.

There is no evidence to suggest that their organisers are drawn from ex Tories nor is there to say that such people would be drawn from the Tories . The uncomfortable reality is that fascism and nationalism attracts sections of the working class and not just Tories.

 

[audiotech]

I never said 'their [BNP] organisors are drawn from ex tories', nevertheless, some have been.

Anyway, I'm not talking about the BNP. I was under the impression that some posters here were talking about the possibility of another brand of 'populist, nationalist, racist movement/party' being set-up and sustained?

 

[The39thStep]

I never said 'their [BNP] organisors are drawn from ex tories', nevertheless, some have been.

Anyway, I'm not talking about the BNP. I was under the impression that some posters here were talking about the possibility of another brand of 'populist, nationalist, racist movement/party' being set-up and sustained?

They are but I think that this was in the context of my post about Barnbrooks unity call which essentially is nationalism without Griffin.

 

[audiotech]

And brand BNP?

 

[The39thStep]

And brand BNP?

If it ever came off then probably although I suspect that there is more to barnbrooks unity call than meets the eye

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I never said 'their [BNP] organisors are drawn from ex tories', nevertheless, some have been.

Anyway, I'm not talking about the BNP. I was under the impression that some posters here were talking about the possibility of another brand of 'populist, nationalist, racist movement/party' being set-up and sustained?

Did I say another brand?

 

[audiotech]

Did I say another brand?

No, you said 'another'. As I posted, I was under the impression that's what you meant?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

No, you said 'another'.

No I didn't.

 

[audiotech]

No I didn't.

I misread that (iritis flare-up), my apologies.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

No problem.

For what it's worth, while I think the potential support (including active support) is there now, I agree that the organisational ability is not yet there, being scattered as it is among various groupings and larger parties, or in none.

Still that could change at any minute, and I still wouldn't quite write off the BNP yet.

 

[where to]

Still that could change at any minute, and I still wouldn't quite write off the BNP yet.

people badly wrote off the FN in France in the last 3 years or so. bankrupt, down to 10%, worse in the Euro Elections iirc.

then Le Pens stood down, replaced by his (more moderate appearing) daughter.

she is now at their highest ever for a presidential poll. things turned in a matter of months.