ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He hasn't thought the angles through properly, has he?
Don't they teach secondary school kids about utilitarianism or about Bentham's penal ideas nowadays?
Griffin and BNP strategy
- Thread starter durruti02
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He hasn't thought the angles through properly, has he?
Don't they teach secondary school kids about utilitarianism or about Bentham's penal ideas nowadays?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Or, and I'm obviously just speculating here, it could be because you're a fucking fruitloop.
And what about when you describe a person as "ultra-left", eh?
Want me to post up some of the veritable avalanche of links to occasions where you've described a person or persons in such terms?
I'm aware of your analysis.
Many a slip 'tween cup and lip".
Surely you meant "Those around here have views that are certainly toward the ultra leftist end of the spectrum"?
After all, it's their views you're giving your opinion of, right, rather than their persons?
And therein lies, perhaps, your biggest problem. The arrogance that's always on display, the certainty.
Interesting that you translate Larry's "Good, however, for the clarification of exactly who you are lining up alongside nowadays" as him saying "tag, you're state", when what he's actually saying is (to paraphrase) "you're allying yourself with idiots".
Same old attica, same old paranoia.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
The Black Hand
Unclean
A) Why must the mental health prejeudice be ignored, if it was racist in this way you would be on your high horse. It is intellectual lazyness, prejeudice, and/or a dodgy agenda that leads to such reactionary gibberish.
B) So? Yes I describe ideas as ultra left, that is what they are and where they belong.
C) Ho ho ho, 'the arrogance, the certainty'. You are probably in denial and are trying vainly to cover up for the ultra left content of much anarchist politics.
The first stage in getting over the problem is acceptance. It is clear to me that the descriptions of the political spectrum I made are comprehensive and accurate, and I think they would be to any genuinly independent (neutral) reader. Of that I am sure, it is called poltical experience, based on comprehensive knowledge. There could be other ways of presenting the ideas I have that is true, but the categories themselves are not up for much change, and the placing of the politics is I think is also reasonable. Funnily enough, I do think whether what I say is reasonable in advance. That you may not like what I say is your problem, it is not mine.
D) It's the same thing Panda. The level of conspiracy theory, the tracking of people, the smopke and whispers is part and parcel of Borderland. That you choose to interpret that post in such a benign manner is either a) dishonest, or b) niave. As I said earlier, that 'some are blind or do not wish to see'. To say I am allying myself with Searchlight/HnH is at worst either lies or at best, a simply ignorant statement.
(You havene't been paying attention much because...) It is clear in the publications I have contributed to that I see the area of autonomy that could break out of the anti fascist impasse identified as existing 'BETWEEN Searchlight/HnH and the ultra left'. It is this political space that is important and one where a new politics suitable for our time may develop.
Just because I have made a clear intellectual statement (as other have noted - 'the evidence is inconclusive') that there is no evidence that the ultra left have that shows that Searchlight/HnH have not helped to hold the BNP voting level down, is not rocket science, and it certainly DOES NOT mean I have allied with them in anyway shape or form. That is an old left hangover, 'accept the (ultra left) party viewpoint', OR you are the enemy. OLD LEFT OLD LEFT! That's you lot that is, totally incapable of seeing an independent point of view.
E) Who?
As for paranoid, when people are out to get you, as is totally clear on the web then paranoia would be a natural result of peoples attempts (and I am including you here) to have a go at the intellectual contribution I have made. Actually, I do not think what I have said is paranoid, it is a natural result of the sad political state of what passes for anti fascism, and I include varieties of anti fascism who deny they are anti fascist here as you all know. What I am doing and will continue to do, is keep hope alive of a way forward that is reasonable, that can transcend political and organisational boundaries, that is not reliant on ultra left gibberish. That is the way towards autonomous political growth and political success.
It IS different to what the ultra left say, accept it and move on. ALl these constant digs help nobody and IMHO are diversionary from the struggle.
The Black Hand
Unclean
People do pick up other papers than what they buy, they may get other papers on trains, in doctors, in pubs, in cafes and so on. They do not read each and every issue that is true, far from that in fact, but the recurring promotion of HnH in the Mirror is probably more widely known than you could imagine.
The Black Hand
Unclean
You posted a comment and I am doing the couresy of a personal reply. I do not know who you are btw, a name check would be nice via PM as you obviously know who I am. Anyway to answer your observation.
'I would love to destroy most the the feeking irrelevant london anarchos' is a comment I made with emphasis on MOST. 'Most' as you know could be 51%, that would leave 49% who I get along with. Basically, and there are many reasons for it, but the purist ultra left forms of anarchism I have only anger and disdain towards now. They should know better. However, it is also clear that the ultra left see anarchists as a recruiting grounds (eg. ICC behaviour over the past nearly 2 decades, Red Action as well, and so on). Unfortunately Libcom is encouraging the ICC and other ultra left sects as well.
This is a very partial reading of political history and theory, their political emphasis and chart http://libcom.org/files/Tendency_Map.jpg
IS only a small part of the liberatarian Marxist tradition, there are huge holes in it, and I am thinking about EP Thompson, History Workshop, Humanist Marxism, New Left and so on. All vital for a serious understanding of the British condition.
I do not have any regrets as, like Oscar Wilde who I have quoted favourably, I think regrets are a block on development. Some of what I participated in was more irrelevant than others, there is a political spectrum/scale as I am fond of saying, it ranges from relevant at one end to irrelevant at the other, something is rarely totally relevant, (and relevant to whom?) or irrelevant, instead there are shades and degrees of this.
What I am seeking to do is to be more comprehensive and therefore more relevant, to have a politics of growth that involves movements and alliances BEYOND the anarchists, and the anarchists have been shockingly bad at this. They wonder why they are irrelevant when they eschew trying to work with eg. victims/family campaigns repeatedly, anarchists generally have no idea of political blocs and strategies that go beyond their party forms. There are exceptions, and the attempt to get an anti election alliance going could be part of this, BUT the proof is in the pudding, the exception that proves the rule and so on.
There is no evidence of an effective political movement and practice around a campaign/cause that involves anarchist groups widely, that is not a tokenistic participation, that would involve serious and long term commitment.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Comical eh? Lets see what autonomous anti fascism is developing shall we?
In the Article "A Far Right Palava" 6.11.09 here;
http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news698.php
"all protesters are calling for continued mobilisations against the far-right, but autonomous from the UAF".
"Autonomous anti-fascists in Nottingham have produced the first edition of a newsletter" 15.2.12;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/02/446183.html
04.03.2010 - The English Defence League (EDL) have made plans to march in Sheffield on 30th May. We call on autonomist anti-fascists to make a stand against them;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/446954.html
The theory and practice of Autonomous Anti Fascism is here;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/446872.html
Articles include;
"Why Anti Fascism, why autonomous, why now?"
“Popular Front Anti Fascism”
“Autonomous Anti Fascism: Towards Praxis”
The movement that is emerging has to be autonomous from controlling old left groups and their newer variants, and from the Labour movement/Searchlight. Our time has come
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Talking bollocks as usual.
I called you a fruitloop not because I'm aware of any past mental health diagnoses that you've had (I'm not aware of such), but because your writings project disarray.
Yes, it's rude and dismissive, but IMO that's all you deserve.
I was talking about you describing people in those terms. Well-sidestepped.
As I said, "the arrogance, the certainty"!
It's not a problem for me at all. How could it be when the reality you posit doesn't actually exist?
Fortunate that I haven't said any such thing, and that O'Hara didn't either.
Try harder.
Provide me with decent substantiation and I might well "accept it and move on", but in the absence of that...(You havene't been paying attention much because...) It is clear in the publications I have contributed to that I see the area of autonomy that could break out of the anti fascist impasse identified as existing 'BETWEEN Searchlight/HnH and the ultra left'. It is this political space that is important and one where a new politics suitable for our time may develop.
Just because I have made a clear intellectual statement (as other have noted - 'the evidence is inconclusive') that there is no evidence that the ultra left have that shows that Searchlight/HnH have not helped to hold the BNP voting level down, is not rocket science, and it certainly DOES NOT mean I have allied with them in anyway shape or form. That is an old left hangover, 'accept the (ultra left) party viewpoint', OR you are the enemy. OLD LEFT OLD LEFT! That's you lot that is, totally incapable of seeing an independent point of view.
E) Who?
Actually, I do not think what I have said is paranoid, it is a natural result of the sad political state of what passes for anti fascism, and I include varieties of anti fascism who deny they are anti fascist here as you all know. What I am doing and will continue to do, is keep hope alive of a way forward that is reasonable, that can transcend political and organisational boundaries, that is not reliant on ultra left gibberish. That is the way towards autonomous political growth and political success.
So why keep making them?
Oh, I see what you mean. You mean the digs at YOU, while you get to blithely continue making digs and pigeon-holing others into your ridiculous oppositional category.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Talking bollocks as usual.
A) I called you a fruitloop not because I'm aware of any past mental health diagnoses that you've had (I'm not aware of such), but because your writings project disarray.
Yes, it's rude and dismissive, but IMO that's all you deserve.
Fortunate that I haven't said any such thing, and that O'Hara didn't either.
Try harder.
Provide me with decent substantiation and I might well "accept it and move on", but in the absence of that...
So why keep making them?
Oh, I see what you mean. You mean the digs at YOU, while you get to blithely continue making digs and pigeon-holing others into your ridiculous oppositional category.
A)AND its REACTIONARY.
I hAve answered the points already, you R just being obtuse. Completely unwilling to think about another way of being, u r adding nothing & r unwilling to think that there is a political spectrum with the ultra left at one end. Anyway, can u get on with something useful? U R jus being a reactionary unthinking shit. WEll done. now move on.
This is what U said clearly indicating you think I am allying with Searchlight;
"Interesting that you translate Larry's "Good, however, for the clarification of exactly who you are lining up alongside nowadays" as him saying "tag, you're state", when what he's actually saying is (to paraphrase) "you're allying yourself with idiots".
YOu forgot U sed it didn't u.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Comical eh? Lets see what autonomous anti fascism is developing shall we?
In the Article "A Far Right Palava" 6.11.09 here;
http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news698.php
"all protesters are calling for continued mobilisations against the far-right, but autonomous from the UAF".
"Autonomous anti-fascists in Nottingham have produced the first edition of a newsletter" 15.2.12;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/02/446183.html
04.03.2010 - The English Defence League (EDL) have made plans to march in Sheffield on 30th May. We call on autonomist anti-fascists to make a stand against them;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/446954.html
The theory and practice of Autonomous Anti Fascism is here;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/446872.html
Articles include;
"Why Anti Fascism, why autonomous, why now?"
“Popular Front Anti Fascism”
“Autonomous Anti Fascism: Towards Praxis”
The movement that is emerging has to be autonomous from controlling old left groups and their newer variants, and from the Labour movement/Searchlight. Our time has come
The Black Hand
Unclean
A self image;
Why he needs to post pictures of himself I do not know.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Blah-de-ad hominem-blah.
This is what U said clearly indicating you think I am allying with Searchlight;
"Interesting that you translate Larry's "Good, however, for the clarification of exactly who you are lining up alongside nowadays" as him saying "tag, you're state", when what he's actually saying is (to paraphrase) "you're allying yourself with idiots".
YOu forgot U sed it didn't u.
No, but if you recall what O'Hara wrote (check the link you posted, why don't you?
), you'll know that Searchlight isn't mentioned. Not once in the entire post in question.Perhaps if you stopped reciting your revolutionary catechism while you're formulating replies to posts, you wouldn't make such egregious errors, old feller.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Panda Wanka
Panda you've turned into a right fucking wanka. It is clear that is part of the sphere of discussions, you lot are fucking one dimensional. What I said before clearly fits, that independent thought is only allowed if it fits your preconceived ultra leftism.
Blah-de-ad hominem-blah.
No, but if you recall what O'Hara wrote (check the link you posted, why don't you?
Perhaps if you stopped reciting your revolutionary catechism while you're formulating replies to posts, you wouldn't make such egregious errors, old feller.
Panda you've turned into a right fucking wanka. It is clear that is part of the sphere of discussions, you lot are fucking one dimensional. What I said before clearly fits, that independent thought is only allowed if it fits your preconceived ultra leftism.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Blah-de-ad hominem-blah again, and this time with juvenile spelling rather than txtspk! Amazing!
The Black Hand
Unclean
Blah-de-ad hominem-blah again, and this time with juvenile spelling rather than txtspk! Amazing!
WTF should I care about u fuckers? Wankers the lot of you (posters I argue with that is, not lurkas or other readas), a complete waste of space, and if anybody hasn't guessed already my patience has worn out today.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Tough.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
It could all have been avoided though couldn't it. You can cut and paste the following for your future use:
Ooops my mistake; there edited. Hope that's better.
Louis MacNeice
The Black Hand
Unclean
You are irrelevant louis and a waste of space. Like t'other knob heds round ere.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ha! Ha! Fantastic pic in the paper today from some anti-BNP play (A Day at the Racists):
How bang on the money and up-to-date is that
How bang on the money and up-to-date is that
The Black Hand
Unclean
Comical eh? Lets see what autonomous anti fascism is developing shall we?
In the Article "A Far Right Palava" 6.11.09 here;
http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news698.php
"all protesters are calling for continued mobilisations against the far-right, but autonomous from the UAF".
"Autonomous anti-fascists in Nottingham have produced the first edition of a newsletter" 15.2.12;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/02/446183.html
04.03.2010 - The English Defence League (EDL) have made plans to march in Sheffield on 30th May. We call on autonomist anti-fascists to make a stand against them;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/446954.html
The theory and practice of Autonomous Anti Fascism is here;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/446872.html
Articles include;
"Why Anti Fascism, why autonomous, why now?"
“Popular Front Anti Fascism”
“Autonomous Anti Fascism: Towards Praxis”
The movement that is emerging has to be autonomous from controlling old left groups and their newer variants, and from the Labour movement/Searchlight. Our time has come
A review of the above pamphlet that was not meant for publication, but I have removed all identyfying features so it is completely anonymous -
"I have read it, its good and especially the
critique of the ultra left. We would like some of course."
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
who was that?
There was also that time when Griffin announced that they had recruited an ex IMG member and some of us are still in contact with the ex marxists for Griffin group
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Both are half decent results for fascism, one being a 3rd place, the other being credible enough of itself. The disproportionate media attention is paying dividends
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Too much time on my hands?
CON 486 = 32.8%
Lab 429 = 28.9%
LD 362 = 24.6%
BNP 203 = 13.7%
The court story is deemed the 2nd most important in bullitin order on Radio 5. Nazis fart - they cover it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's a large story - don't pretend that its not. You'd whine like a dog if your party was in the same situ.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
MN?
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