Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[Pac man]

iirc £6,000 in savings and benefits starts to taper off at that point (assuming you are on income based rather than contributions based) - that was for JSA a few years ago, probably different for Universal Credit.
In any case, if they receive the cash and spend it it won't deny them benefits. I suppose it might be counted as income and have their benefits reduced/stopped for a month but I don't think it'd make them ineligible - definitely something for anyone who is claiming to watch out for though.

As far as im aware compensation from something like this would go into some kind of trust fund (solicitors will sort it out) and shouldnt affect benefits. This is how it works for victims of historical child abuse and victims of more recent sexual offences. So cant see why the same principles shouldnt apply, but im not 100% certain.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's strange that the fire in a flat on the fourth floor was put out by LFB who then left the building by which time flames were visible on the outside of the building. This suggests the fire has somehow travelled unseen along a ceiling cavity or beneath the floorboards connected to the fourth floor flat.

It is known that the 2015/16 refurbishment involved the temporary removal of firestopping materials between the floors to enable the installation of new boilers. It is unclear whether these materials were replaced which, though speculation, might explain the "now you see it now you don't" manner in which the fire spread beyond it's initial source.

On a separate point, looking at the top picture in Cid's post, it's impressive how the 1974 fluted concrete columns appear relatively undamaged while pretty much everything that was added in 2015/16 is charred beyond recognition.

Several reports have said the fridge fire had spread to the cladding through the kitchen window, the firefighters in the kitchen weren't aware of this when they put the fridge fire out. As the fire outside engulfed most the block in just 30 minutes, it re-entered the building on various floors via open windows, then into other flats as closed windows gave up the ghost.

Other things may have been going on inside too, but the fire outside & it re-entering the building at various stages would appear to have been the main issue.

 

[Orang Utan]

All this amateur armseat detective work is a bit distasteful, no?

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think the conversation here has on the whole been very tasteful actually. It's inevitable that people are going to be interested in what happened and how.

There's no piss taking, edgy jokes, nor exaggeration as far as I can see.

 

[Pickman's model]

All this amateur armseat detective work is a bit distasteful, no?

no

 

[Badgers]

Grenfell tower victims to be given luxury flats in £2bn block

 

[free spirit]

All this amateur armseat detective work is a bit distasteful, no?

depends if you think that we should wait 5 years for the results of an official inquiry before taking action* or sus things out now so that pressure can be applied in the right places to ensure that whatever caused this is stopped from happening on new installations, and identified and rectified on existing tower blocks as soon as possible.

Most of the information needed to work this out is available in the public domain, this is just a useful way of collating it, verifying it and getting additional opinions.

* or more likely brushing it under the carpet and doing sfa about it.

 

[Wilf]

All this amateur armseat detective work is a bit distasteful, no?

Dunno really. Can't say I've read all the technical stuff on this thread, but it all looks to be lined up at answering the question of how the residents were let down. Haven't seen anything too prurient. All fine lines of course, but urban's discussions have been respectful as far as I've seen.

 

[Orang Utan]

depends if you think that we should wait 5 years for the results of an official inquiry before taking action* or sus things out now so that pressure can be applied in the right places to ensure that whatever caused this is stopped from happening on new installations, and identified and rectified on existing tower blocks as soon as possible.

* or more likely brushing it under the carpet and doing sfa about it.

surely there will be independent investigators appointed by residents' lawyers who will be doing all this. you don't have access to all the facts/data, so your own investigation will be of limited value.
i dunno. i felt like this about the amanda knox discussion on here too. it's sits uneasily with me.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Grenfell tower victims to be given luxury flats in £2bn block

Hmmm...

The 68 flats have been bought by the City of London Corporation as part of the response to the tragedy, and handed to Kensington & Chelsea Council for social housing.

They will provide “longer-term accommodation” as 250 residents affected are currently being housed in hotels around the area.

This figure includes residents from surrounding blocks too?

Why have the CoLC done this?

Also I fucking hate the ES...sensationalist, hate mongering wankers.

 

[Pickman's model]

surely there will be independent investigators appointed by residents' lawyers who will be doing all this. you don't have access to all the facts/data, so your own investigation will be of limited value.
i dunno. i felt like this about the amanda knox discussion on here too. it's sits uneasily with me.

everything we do here is of limited value but the true urbanite doesn't let that stop them.

 

[free spirit]

surely there will be independent investigators appointed by residents' lawyers who will be doing all this. you don't have access to all the facts/data, so your own investigation will be of limited value.
i dunno. i felt like this about the amanda knox discussion on here too. it's sits uneasily with me.

Most inquiries are, as Sir Paul argued, ‘quick political fixes’ in response to urgent pressures, like the Hutton report after the death of Dr David Kelly or the Leveson inquiry after the revelations about the hacking of Milly Dowler’s phone. After the initial announcement, inquiries have several purposes. They serve as political theatre with high-profile witnesses, while occasionally finding out something new and providing lessons which can be learnt in future.

The role of public inquiries

 

[Orang Utan]

The role of public inquiries

so what? you really think you can personally solve this when you don't have all of the facts? this is not a mystery novel ffs

 

[marty21]

Other councils are not surprisingly in panic mode ,we are all heading out to visit estates and speak to residents to calm their fears .

 

[killer b]

so what? you really think you can personally solve this when you don't have all of the facts? this is not a mystery novel ffs

he's got some plastic and a blowtorch. surely that's enough?

 

[Orang Utan]

he's got some plastic and a blowtorch. surely that's enough?

that was the final straw for me.

 

[Treacle Toes]

so what? you really think you can personally solve this when you don't have all of the facts? this is not a mystery novel ffs

There really isn't any need for this level of exaggeration. You've made your point and some here disagree with you. You can choose not to read the thread.

 

[Orang Utan]

there's been some sensible posts from Teaboy and he's advised caution about speculation, yet people have continued to spraff off

 

[Orang Utan]

There really isn't any need for this level of exaggeration. You've made your point and some here disagree with you. You can choose not to read the thread.

I think I may have to but people need to get a grip

 

[killer b]

You can choose not to read the thread.

not really an option is it? The thread isn't just a receptacle for amateur columbo work, it's also a thread for discussion about a hugely significant ongoing situation.

 

[Pickman's model]

there's been some sensible posts from Teaboy and he's advised caution about speculation, yet people have continued to spraff off

i am surprised and perplexed. surely you've been here long enough to know speculation's what we do.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think I may have to but people need to get a grip

There are very few people spraffing off on the thread.

 

[Orang Utan]

There are very few people spraffing off on the thread.

I beg to differ

 

[Pickman's model]

that was the final straw for me.

yeh never lose a chance to do down someone with the gumption to go out and experiment.

 

[Treacle Toes]

not really an option is it? The thread isn't just a receptacle for amateur columbo work, it's also a thread for discussion about a hugely significant ongoing situation.

It is an option if you think that this thread on the whole is 'amateur columbo work'. I don't think it is. Surely the way to keep it sensible and informative is to focus on the sensible and informative stuff.

 

[Pickman's model]

It is an option if you think that this thread on the whole is 'amateur columbo work'. I don't think it is. Surely the way to keep it sensible and informative is to focus on the sensible and informative stuff.

columbo does of course always get the villain.

 

[killer b]

It is an option if you think that this thread on the whole is 'amateur columbo work'. I don't think it is. Surely the way to keep it sensible and informative is to focus on the sensible and informative stuff.

No-one has said the thread is 'on the whole' amateur columbo work. Just that it'd be nice to see less of it.

 

[free spirit]

so what? you really think you can personally solve this when you don't have all of the facts? this is not a mystery novel ffs

It's a basic fire engineering issue involving a mix of building materials and installation techniques and regulations, for which virtually all the relevant information is in the public domain.

I think I mentioned earlier that my dad is a professor of combustion engineering who's taught fire engineering to a good proportion of the countries fire officers, and's working up a report on this. He's just not so good at scouring the internet to obtain info that's public domain, nor does he have experience on the installation side of things which some on this thread appear to have (and I do to a more limited extent).

If you're not interested in anything I post on this then feel free to not read it - use the ignore function if you want.

Leave it to the experts is one thing, but leave it to a politically stitched up public inquiry...... sorry, but I can't agree with that.

 

[Pickman's model]

so what? you really think you can personally solve this when you don't have all of the facts? this is not a mystery novel ffs

So where would you prefer to see the thread go?

 

[bimble]

Grenfell tower victims to be given luxury flats in £2bn block

Good on them (the developers who agreed to sell the flats at cost according to that).