Goldsmiths University Diversity officer facing sack

[brogdale]

It was a genuine question.

You had said that you couldn't see yourself really needing to use the word cis/that only trans people would use it.
So I asked if, amongst friends, you had a conversation about trans and cis people, what words you would have used instead of cis.
There are a lot of other choices. A long time a go, as a youth, I might have used the word trans and normal. Which is horrible.

Oh, OK...that sounds very reasonable. Yeah, I suppose in such an hypothetical context I might find myself needing to use the prefix as you say, but my gut reaction would not be to naturally gravitate to the antonym usage. There are people, and some people have transitioned (making them trans)...but they are, first and foremost people. And I can well appreciate how it might well be important for trans people to have the vocabulary in their own conversations to distinguish people who are not trans, but like I said I can't see the need for wide-spread adoption of the term as a self-descriptor for most people.

 

[prunus]

I thought I'd share this thing I wrote a while ago for a public speech I was going to make. It's a draft version so a bit rough and ready. It's kind of in answer to a question i saw earlier in the thread about when gender mismatch becomes a dysfunction.

Thank you so much for posting that. Very moving, one of the most beautiful things I've read. Thank you.

 

[emanymton]

Stupid question but what is wrong with trans and not-trans. Which is what I would have used before I heard the word cis.

 

[Sea Star]

Stupid question but what is wrong with trans and not-trans. Which is what I would have used before I heard the word cis.

why say non trans when we have cis?


also - non trans doesn't cut it - there are many different genders that do not identify as cis or trans. 'Non trans' denies their existence!

 

[Sea Star]

but like I said I can't see the need for wide-spread adoption of the term as a self-descriptor for most people.

I can - it needs to be in everybody's vocabulary or we will be subject to discrimination through ignorance. I live in the real world and interact with all sorts of people, not just trans people!

 

[SpookyFrank]

also - non trans doesn't cut it - there are many different genders that do not identify as cis or trans. 'Non trans' denies their existence!

But surely 'cis' is just a word that means 'non trans'

Or if it's not, what does 'cis' actually mean?

 

[Citizen66]

But surely 'cis' is just a word that means 'non trans'

Or if it's not, what does 'cis' actually mean?

Someone who identifies with their gender from birth.

 

[Wilf]

I thought I'd share this thing I wrote a while ago for a public speech I was going to make. It's a draft version so a bit rough and ready. It's kind of in answer to a question i saw earlier in the thread about when gender mismatch becomes a dysfunction.

That's really sad and uplifting at the same time, thanks for posting it AS. Anyway, scuse me, I've just got something in me eye.

 

[Pickman's model]

cis-, prefix

repr. Latin cis prep. ‘on this side of’, opposed to trans or ultra, across, beyond; also used in comb. as in cis-alpīnus, cis-montānus, lying on this side the Alps or the mountains, cis-rhenānus on this side the Rhine, cis-tiberis on this side the Tiber. The two first of these esp. continued in use in medieval Latin in reference to Rome and Italy, whence Italian cisalpino, French cisalpin, cismontain, cisalpine adj., cismontane adj.

 

[8ball]

Someone who identifies with their gender from birth.

And 'trans' means someone identifies with the opposite gender.

Other conformations are possible.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Someone who identifies with their gender from birth.

I get that, I don't get how that's different from 'not-trans'.

Not that I think people shouldn't use these words, but I've always seen cis/trans used as a mutually exclusive dichotomy iyswim.

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone who identifies with their gender from birth.

so someone who's trans and identifies as such from their earliest years would be cis trans. whereas someone who only identifies as trans later in life would be trans.

 

[SpookyFrank]

cis-, prefix

repr. Latin cis prep. ‘on this side of’, opposed to trans or ultra, across, beyond; also used in comb. as in cis-alpīnus, cis-montānus, lying on this side the Alps or the mountains, cis-rhenānus on this side the Rhine, cis-tiberis on this side the Tiber. The two first of these esp. continued in use in medieval Latin in reference to Rome and Italy, whence Italian cisalpino, French cisalpin, cismontain, cisalpine adj., cismontane adj.

I was asking about what it means in this context as I suspect you probably know.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was asking about what it means in this context as I suspect you probably know.

i just read your posts, not your mind.

 

[smokedout]

and another thing, gay used to mean happy, and full of life and now perverts have stolen it

(bit much perhaps but I keep seeing parallels to a lot of things that were said in the past about gay and lesbian people)

 

[Pickman's model]

and another thing, gay used to mean happy, and full of life and then it meant homosexual and now perverts have stolen it

c4u

 

[Sea Star]

Someone who identifies with their gender from birth.

Someone who identifies with their *assigned* gender from birth would be more accurate

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone who identifies with their *assigned* gender from birth would be more accurate

you're confusing 'gender' and 'sex'.

 

[Sea Star]

I was asking about what it means in this context as I suspect you probably know.

the same...

 

[killer b]

why say non trans when we have cis?


also - non trans doesn't cut it - there are many different genders that do not identify as cis or trans. 'Non trans' denies their existence!

so does 'cis', then?

edit: actually, ignore me. I get you now. it doesn't deny their existence though, just includes them among 'not trans'.

 

[SpookyFrank]

i just read your posts, not your mind.

And yet everyone else knew what I was getting at. Maybe you're just not paying attention because you're too busy planning your next incredibly witty interjection of facetiousness and pedantry.

 

[Sea Star]

you're confusing 'gender' and 'sex'.

its only in recent years that people have started differentiating gender and sex. When I was born female meant girl meant vagina. end of!!

And the vast majority of people still do equate female gender with female sex. When you're assigned female at birth it is your sex and your gender that is defined for you by society.

Now we're beginning to know better. And I'm sure current conventions will be seen as outdated before long.

 

[Pickman's model]

But surely 'cis' is just a word that means 'non trans'

which is what it's been taken as meaning throughout the thread. and that's effectively what people have taken it as meaning in this context.

Or if it's not, what does 'cis' actually mean?

what does it mean? to put you out of your misery i quoted from the oed.

 

[Pickman's model]

And yet everyone else knew what I was getting at. Maybe you're just not paying attention because you're too busy planning your next incredibly witty interjection of facetiousness and pedantry.

do you read your posts or consider their meaning at all? it doesn't seem so.

 

[SpookyFrank]

which is what it's been taken as meaning throughout the thread. and that's effectively what people have taken it as meaning in this context.

Well yes, so you understand my confusion upon learning that 'cis' and 'non trans' are not synonymous, even though I've only ever seen the word used as such.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well yes, so you understand my confusion upon learning that 'cis' and 'non trans' are not synonymous, even though I've only ever seen the word used as such.

yes. now we've cleared that up, i'll take your post in the apologetick way it was intended and i hope we can move on.

 

[Sea Star]

so does 'cis', then?

edit: actually, ignore me. I get you now. it doesn't deny their existence though, just includes them among 'not trans'.

no

if you use non trans to say cis people you're identifying non binary (for eaxample) people as cis.

if you use cis then non binary people aren't defined at all - they are seperate and exist outside of both trans and cis.

 

[8ball]

Well yes, so you understand my confusion upon learning that 'cis' and 'non trans' are not synonymous, even though I've only ever seen the word used as such.

They're not quite synonymous in the way 'gay' and 'not heterosexual' aren't.

 

[Sea Star]

And yet everyone else knew what I was getting at..

Did you ask us, cos I didn't.

 

[SpookyFrank]

[

yes. now we've cleared that up, i'll take your post in the apologetick way it was intended and i hope we can move on.

I wasn't intending to be apologetic, I still think you're a pompous arse.