But Im on your side and against that.
Goldsmiths University Diversity officer facing sack
- Thread starter Fingers
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But Im on your side and against that.
It's just an atonym, like straight is to gay, or non-disabled is to disabled. Its difficult to discuss things like disability or transgenderism without a term to refer to people who are not transgendered or disabled, and as was hilariously pointed out earlier in the thread, without a specific antonym then there is a temptation to use the word 'normal' which is obviously a bit shit.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It doesn't seem right to "like" that, AuntiStella, but exclusion and worse is the reality of many trans people isn't it
Fair enough. I guess it's because I only seem to come across it in what I deem to be divisive circumstances that it gets my back up.
does excluding you from women-only afternoon at the swimming baths do that too?
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Firstly its not a label, its a descriptive term like straight or white. Secondly, it carries no guilt or accusation. One does not choose to be cis. One just is. I love many cis people. My boyfriend is white, cis and hetereosexual and I still love him very much! Thirdly, if you support trans people then please don't reject the word trans as refusal to use trans results in trans people being excluded. For example, a cis woman differentiating herself from trans women will use such pejorative terms as "real", "genetic", "born" or "normal". Cis helps us avoid all of that!
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
It is.It doesn't seem right to "like" that, AuntiStella, but exclusion and worse is the reality of many trans people isn't it
I'm relatively lucky as I seem to be able to pass as a cis woman in most places, though I have had some trouble in loos and I tend to avoid other "women only" spaces which is fine as I hate sport and I don't feel the need to go to feminist spaces that exclude trans people!
TBH in my case - its fear of exclusion that I have to endure when I use toilets, etc.
Theres nuances to this, no? What about women being banned from golf clubs?
It does on the wheel of privilege. I've seen it in action. And I haven't rejected the word trans.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
challenge that but don't reject "cis". If you accept trans then logically you must accept cis as its opposite.
Yeah I conceded that.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
OK - obviously I'm not keeping up :-p
Post #335
The tendency of white 'cis' men (for want of a better term...) to take over and dominate discussions is a well documented and not particularly controversial phenomenon to raise. As such, women only (or BME only) meetings seem - in the absence of a world where equality is an actual reality - a reasonable response. Excluding you no more labels you a racist or a sexist or whatever than excluding you from women-only afternoon at the swimming baths labels you a rapist.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Other trans people have told me that the use of toilets and exclusion (and/or fear of exclusion) is a particular issue, and it's reflected in my own experiences of people transitioning at work - it seems to bring out the worst in people.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
well, I'm not surprised I missed that. But OK - thanks for that!
I'm not against women only groups and I agree that what you describe exists. I think it's preferable that political groups are mixed though. Otherwise it's just perpetuating the problem.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
apart from one time when i was called an arse bandit by a contractor in one of our railway depots, I've not had much trouble at work. But transitioning was hard work - making sure people understood what it was I was going through and telling them what was and what was not acceptable. In my experience people tended to err on the side of caution and really treated me with kid gloves which was not required. They seemed to forget I was the same person as the bloke who had already done 24 years on the railways!!
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Mixed but with every effort made to make sure every subgroup is able to express themselves.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I guess they were erring on the side of caution so as not to say or do something offensive and ended up forgetting you-still-as-a-person-they-know as an unintended consequence. Did your employer help with information for your colleagues so you didn't have to do it all yourself?
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Nope. I had to do everything myself. My manager helped me with writing the email I sent to my colleagues but apart from that I had to fight for everything all the way!!
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
I guess in a way I wasn't the person they thought they knew - at that point I didn't even know myself until I transitioned. They only knew who I was pretending to be!
But my boss tried to stop me going on site and made me do more officey admin stuff which is just sexist bullshit!!!
Me too, but I can totally understand why some might choose to go for exclusionary groups, especially as
is what intersectionality (in theory) attempts to achieve. And you've already rejected intersectionality...
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
did I? When?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Bloody hell! I think that's remiss of your employer not to be more actively supportive. There's loads they could and should have done.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
That's outrageous sexist shite innit, wtaf
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Yep!! I'm now involved with the LGBT+ network trying to make sure other trans people get better treatment - and I'm mentoring a young trans person too to make sure they are able to access all the services they should be.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Have you considered writing guidelines for employers?
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