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Gaza under attack yet again.

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bit more than a few placards.

The "American Jewish Committee of Berlin" represents a couple of hundred Yank Jews who live in the city, and as for the Israeli ambassador, I thought it'd have been obvious by now to anyone with a critical thought in their head that these diplomats are additionally tasked with propagandising in support of their state. We get the Israeli ambassador to the UK turning up on the letters pages of some of the dailies on almost a weekly basis. If something happens in Israel and a reader comments unfavourably on it, there he is, supporting the state of Israel and not-so-subtly implying that anyone who disagrees with him is an anti-Semite.
 
Speaking purely academically, as I regard the prospect of sanctions as imposed by the UK government vanishingly unlikely, I would reckon they would be mostly financial; or at least financial/trade sanctions would stand the most chance of having any effect.

Since you're speaking purely academically, care to flesh out a bit more detail on that? And what effect would you hope such sanctions had?
 
What the hell can we do? I more or less agree with you but what is the alternative?

I don't think sanctions are totally useless - certain targeted sanctions can have an effect but it depends on the economy etc. VP is probably on to something with stopping goods going into Israel; that would have an impact but it might also make it even harder for goods to reach Palestinians and its always the poorest that feel sanctions first. Which would be a very bad thing in terms of the Israeli working class; anything that pushes them further towards the Israeli state is self-defeating.

Guess the thing is, we can't do very much useful at all - only the Palestinians and the Israeli's can really stop the Israeli state. :(
 
Israel isn't fascist nor turning fascist. Israel is as fascist as the colonisation of the Americas or Australia. Not everything murderous and racist is fascist. It's a completely different political-economic set up. The fascist parties in Israel distinguish themselves not so much in their hatred of Palestinians but in their desire to discipline the Jewish population cf. the Kahanist attacks on "Helenised Jews".

Definitely this. The comparison with colonisers in America and Australia is a good one, I'd also add pre-Apartheid South Africa. The way in which over many years the Israeli state has settled, grown, and absorbed more and more land is very similar to how the Dutch East India company settled at the Cape, and gradually took more and more land from the indigenous people. Within the expanding colonial territory, blacks and coloureds within the borders were 2nd class citizens, but they had some protection under the law, just like Arabs living in Israel. Outside the colonial borders, the indigenous people were left alone in some periods and in other times the colonists might trade with them, attack them, fight small battles, seize their land etc, depending on their economic needs at the time.

What Knotted says about the fascist parties in Israel sums it up; a Fascist state would never allow Jews and even Arabs to organise in trade unions. The tent city in 2011 would never have been tolerated by a Fascist state. What Israel is really is the last of the Colonialists - which makes sense. They wanted to found a Jewish state; the only way to do that would be to colonise the land of another people just as Europeans have done in America, Africa and Australia.
 
Definitely this. The comparison with colonisers in America and Australia is a good one, I'd also add pre-Apartheid South Africa. The way in which over many years the Israeli state has settled, grown, and absorbed more and more land is very similar to how the Dutch East India company settled at the Cape, and gradually took more and more land from the indigenous people. Within the expanding colonial territory, blacks and coloureds within the borders were 2nd class citizens, but they had some protection under the law, just like Arabs living in Israel. Outside the colonial borders, the indigenous people were left alone in some periods and in other times the colonists might trade with them, attack them, fight small battles, seize their land etc, depending on their economic needs at the time.

What Knotted says about the fascist parties in Israel sums it up; a Fascist state would never allow Jews and even Arabs to organise in trade unions. The tent city in 2011 would never have been tolerated by a Fascist state. What Israel is really is the last of the Colonialists - which makes sense. They wanted to found a Jewish state; the only way to do that would be to colonise the land of another people just as Europeans have done in America, Africa and Australia.

Exactly. The nearest historical analogy for what's happening now in Gaza is the Setif massacre of 1945, in French-ruled Algeria:

After five days of chaos, French military and police restored order, but then carried out a series of reprisals for the attacks on settlers. The army, which included Foreign Legion, Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian and Senegalese troops, carried out summary executions in the course of a ratissage ("raking-over") of Muslim rural communities suspected of involvement. Less accessible mechtas (Muslim villages) were bombed by French aircraft, and the cruiser Duguay-Trouin standing off the coast in the Gulf of Bougie, shelled Kherrata. Pied noir vigilantes lynched prisoners taken from local jails or randomly shot Muslims not wearing white arm bands (as instructed by the Army) out of hand.[3] It is certain that the great majority of the Muslim victims had not been implicated in the original outbreak.[5]

These attacks killed anywhere between 1,020 (the official French figure given in the Tubert Report shortly after the massacre) and 45,000 people (as claimed by Radio Cairo at the time). Alistair Horne notes that 6,000 was the figure finally settled on by moderate historians but acknowledges that this remains only an estimate.[5] The Sétif outbreak and the repression that followed marked a turning point in the relations between France, and the Muslim population since 1830, when France had colonized Algeria, the closest portion of Africa to France. While the details of the Sétif killings were largely overlooked in metropolitan France, the impact on the Algerian Muslim population was traumatic, especially on the large numbers of Muslim soldiers in the French Army who were then returning from the War in Europe.[6] Nine years later a general uprising began in Algeria, leading to independence from France in March 1962 with the signing of the Evian Accords.
 
An image just popped into my head of Jewish Pilgrims fleeing religious persecution in Europe and landing on Palestine Rock...

Do you get turkeys in Palestine?
 
An image just popped into my head of Jewish Pilgrims fleeing religious persecution in Europe and landing on Palestine Rock...

Do you get turkeys in Palestine?
ottoman-empire-1580.gif
 
Since you're speaking purely academically, care to flesh out a bit more detail on that? And what effect would you hope such sanctions had?

Freezing bank accounts, halting any joint projects (that will coincidentally be most likely of a military nature) and the stuff that VP was talking about that you've already spotted. What I hope and what would actually be likely to happen are two very different things. I would hope for it to financially cripple them and force them to the negotiating table, but sanctions would be no quick fix they usually take years to have any impact and that's if everyone's singing from the same songsheet. In a worst case scenario one likely prospect is them adopting a bunker mentality, lashing out even more so than at present - I am not overly keen on the prospect of that happening when a significant proportion of the ruling class would appear to have collective mental health issues. Here I refer to that piece that everyones has been expressing shock and anger about, and unfortunately other examples are not hard to come by.
 
Freezing bank accounts, halting any joint projects (that will coincidentally be most likely of a military nature) and the stuff that VP was talking about that you've already spotted. What I hope and what would actually be likely to happen are two very different things. I would hope for it to financially cripple them and force them to the negotiating table, but sanctions would be no quick fix they usually take years to have any impact and that's if everyone's singing from the same songsheet. In a worst case scenario one likely prospect is them adopting a bunker mentality, lashing out even more so than at present - I am not overly keen on the prospect of that happening when a significant proportion of the ruling class would appear to have collective mental health issues. Here I refer to that piece that everyones has been expressing shock and anger about, and unfortunately other examples are not hard to come by.

Hmmm. I'm just not sure calling for sanctions is very positive unless a) the calls are specific and b) they still might be a bad idea.

This is quite a good piece from Judy Beishon from a while ago.

http://www.socialismtoday.org/169/israel.html
 
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