Gaza under attack yet again.

[Theisticle]

Sickening.

 

[frogwoman]

By they i mean the state of Israel.

Netanyahu doesn't believe this.

 

[frogwoman]

Every time 'the Jews' get mentioned in this context that is another hasbara propaganda victory.

 

[frogwoman]

So can people not do this please because every time they do they are helping the Israeli Government.

 

[quiquaquo]

Every time 'the Jews' get mentioned in this context that is another hasbara propaganda victory.

True.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They're not even the worst. They're the SOLE enablers of indiscriminate Israeli violence.

Far from it, doc.
Most EU member states are complicit too. The biggest enabler is, of course, the US, due to direct military aid, but they give just as much to Egypt, in order to keep Egypt on-side with regard to confining the Gazans to Gaza.

 

[likesfish]

How the fuck can you justify targetting a hospital love to hear the idfs justification for that.

One thing by mistake but delibratelty targetting a hospital is a war crime unless said structure is used to store munitions etc then it isnt.
There were reports of ambulances being used to ferry hamas fighters about not sure you can do much if a bloke with an ak47 demands a lift


Do that and the protection of the red cross/red crescent becomes moot even if the ambulances were hijacked coerced they stop being protected

 

[quiquaquo]

Hasbara propaganda.

Edit: From 5 years ago.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the thing is that the jewish lobby in the us isn't all that. but the zionist lobby is - all the xian loons seeing the existence of the zionist entity as proof we're living in the end times.

And feeding more private money per annum to the state of Israel than all the private US Jewish contributions combined.

 

[likesfish]

Really blokes with guns getting out of an ambulance?
And it was staged really?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Far from it, doc.
Most EU member states are complicit too. The biggest enabler is, of course, the US, due to direct military aid, but they give just as much to Egypt, in order to keep Egypt on-side with regard to confining the Gazans to Gaza.

Yeah I mentioned this earlier. But don't you think it all really comes down to the US? Once they vote against Israel at the UN (again, fat chance) it's essentially over for Israel in terms of the occupation. That was the case for South Africa, not the same situation precisely but it's pretty close and I think the comparison is valid. I get most EU countries enable Israel too but they at least vote in favour of the two state settlement.

 

[quiquaquo]

Really blokes with guns getting out of an ambulance?
And it was staged really?

Best blow the shit out of ambulances just in case, eh?

You're ex military aren't you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/

Not sure if this will work. Its an Israeli MP calling for Palestinian mothers to be killed to prevent them from giving birth to 'little snakes'.

Old news (from about a fortnight ago). The MP in question is a good example of what happens when you grow up surrounded by unquestioning dittoheads - you lack the ability to exercise critical thought over the shit you get indoctrinated with.
You can bet she'd be squealing about anti-Semitism of someone talked about killing all Jewish mothers for the same purpose.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

How the fuck can you justify targetting a hospital love to hear the idfs justification for that.

One thing by mistake but delibratelty targetting a hospital is a war crime unless said structure is used to store munitions etc then it isnt.
There were reports of ambulances being used to ferry hamas fighters about not sure you can do much if a bloke with an ak47 demands a lift


Do that and the protection of the red cross/red crescent becomes moot even if the ambulances were hijacked coerced they stop being protected

Yeah not exactly much the driver can do about that is there?

This is the same bullshit Israel used in their last little murderous jolly into Gaza. It was deemed bullshit then and it will be deemed bullshit now.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah I mentioned this earlier. But don't you think it all really comes down to the US? Once they vote against Israel at the UN (again, fat chance) it's essentially over for Israel in terms of the occupation. That was the case for South Africa, not the same situation precisely but it's pretty close and I think the comparison is valid. I get most EU countries enable Israel too but they at least vote in favour of the two state settlement.

I would posit strong support for the state of Israel even without the US's involvement, because in reality what the US does with its' influence in Israel is much the same as what various European states have done in the Middle East for the last 2 centuries - supporting whichever politics allows them either direct access to resources, or leverage over states with resources they required. The US involvement merely encapsulates the realpolitik that already existed. If there weren't/hadn't been a post-war US hegemony, Europe would have filled the role.

 

[likesfish]

I Belive the idf are murderous cunts.
but and its a big but if the enemy abuse the red cross and red crescent then they dont offer any protection
You cant complain that the idf delibratly target ambulances because they are a bunch of cunts ( which they are)
If the idf can turn round and say we have proof you used them to transport fighters.
Thats why you dont abuse the red cross/ red crescent because then its open season and you have a perfect excuse for doing it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not sure even hitler was that candid in his genocidal desires?

He was. Read (if you can bear the thoroughly badly-written bombastic prose) Mein Kampf.

 

[quiquaquo]

I Belive the idf are murderous cunts.
but and its a big but if the enemy abuse the red cross and red crescent then they dont offer any protection
You cant complain that the idf delibratly target ambulances because they are a bunch of cunts ( which they are)
If the idf can turn round and say we have proof you used them to transport fighters

The enemy? Their country has been and continues to be stolen and resistance to the ongoing war crimes by any means necessary is justified in the circumstances. If Hamas are in the basement of a hospital that justifies bombing it?

The military have damaged your thinking processes, this is exactly how war crimes happen: only obeying orders etc.

Wake up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I am speechless...

I just don't understand it ..

What's to understand?
This isn't about right or wrong for people like Netanyahu, it's about establishing dominion over supposedly "historically-Jewish" land. Now, for some of the Zionists, that's for historico-religious reasons, but for the majority of them, it's about an Israeli nationalism that says "no-one but Jews may live in this land". It's the other side of the coin to the Nazi plans to erase some "races", and turn others into modern-day helots (only we're not supposed to use comparisons to Nazism, because that's allegedly anti-Semitic).
The state of Israel also knows that it will always ghave cases of "provocation" by which to excuse its murderous tactics, because subject races always resist, even if that resistance is meaningless to anyone but the resisters.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I Belive the idf are murderous cunts.
but and its a big but if the enemy abuse the red cross and red crescent then they dont offer any protection
You cant complain that the idf delibratly target ambulances because they are a bunch of cunts ( which they are)
If the idf can turn round and say we have proof you used them to transport fighters.
Thats why you dont abuse the red cross/ red crescent because then its open season and you have a perfect excuse for doing it.

Tbf though the video you posted was published in 2009 and it was presumably filmed in 2008, during Operation Cast Lead. I'm sure the Goldstone report would've seen such footage and dismissed it because the report found no evidence of ambulances transporting militants. Yeah Hamas are stupid for doing what was shown in the video and yes the IDF will use it as a justification but it's not a justification under international law, not that they care about such things.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why do Israel's actions not count as war crimes?

They are war crimes.
The difficulty lies not in categorising what they do, it's in prosecuting it. As you may have noticed, war crimes prosecutions tend to be "victors' justice", if they're just at all.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't buy this talk of the Zionist entity crap. Its the democratic elected government of Israel. Its the national army that all Israelis have served in.

You're confusing the institutions and the ideology. This isn't about the democratically-elected (ha-fucking-ha, considering how difficult it is for an Israeli Arab to exercise their franchise) government, or about the Israeli military forces, it's about a Zionist ideology that says "Jews only, and even then it depends on your skin colour".

I've seen precious little show of Jewish opposition to the actions in Gaza. I have maybe 20 odd Jewish friends on FB non of whom wish to stick their neck out. In fact I understand why, that's what's so bleak frankly. The term Zionist is thrown so wildly about it is devoid of meaning. Its war between Palestinians and Israelis and their representatives.

It's war between an over-mighty oppressor, and a small and almost insignificant opponent, whose "violence" against the oppressor is mostly symbolic.
In other words, it's not "war" in any meaningful sense, it's suppression of minor insurgency through collective punishment.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Could you please expand on what you've seen on the marches? Do you mean conflation of being jewish with being zionist by swappie types?

There's a fair bit of "international banker" nutjobbism from the likes of Occupy!, and some PSC folk are a bit free with the anti-Semitic tropes.

 

[likesfish]

The enemy? Their country has been and continues to be stolen and resistance to the ongoing war crimes by any means necessary is justified in the circumstances. If Hamas are in the basement of a hospital that justifies bombing it?

The military have damaged your thinking processes, this is exactly how war crimes happen: only obeying orders etc.

Wake up.

If you decide to fight by any means necessary then you can't complain that protected symbols are not respected
The idf are bastards but do have the ability to chose their targets if hamas attempt to use hospitals etc as human shields ( not sure they have in this case but might be the idfs excuse Then under the geneva convention its not a war crime)

Hamas cant have it both ways you cant fight by all means necessary and then complain protected symbols are not respected or civillians if your fighters are not identifable as combatants etc etc.

The idea of rules in war may be odd but they try to limit the mayhem inflicted on civillians when fighting the idf breaking them gives the idf the perfect excuse to operate a free fire zone.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As a Palestinian said on the TV today: Resist until they kill us or until we live in freedom, there is no other way.

While this is true, unfortunately the state of Israel has the will and the power to make the fact of resistance a justification for further oppression.

Israel is finished.

That depends what you mean when you say "Israel".

 

[ViolentPanda]

But no one seems to want that, not Israelites nor Palestinians.

Get it right.

Some Israelis and some Palestinians don't want that. Unfortunately, they happen to be the ones with power currently, so good sense cannot win out.

 

[ddraig]

NBC reporter Ayman Mohyeldin pulled from covering events in Gaza
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/...ge-witnesses-israeli-beach-killing-four-boys/

Indeed, numerous NBC employees, including some of the network’s highest-profile stars, were at first confused and then indignant over the use of Engel rather than Mohyeldin to report the story. But what they did not know, and what has not been reported until now, is that Mohyeldin was removed completely from reporting on Gaza by a top NBC executive, David Verdi, who ordered Mohyeldin to leave Gaza immediately.

Over the last two weeks, Mohyeldin’s reporting has been far more balanced and even-handed than the standard pro-Israel coverage that dominates establishment American press coverage; his reports have provided context to the conflict that is missing from most American reports and he avoids adopting Israeli government talking points as truth. As a result, neocon and “pro-Israel” websites have repeatedly attacked him as a “Hamas spokesman” and spouting “pro-Hamas rants.”

 

[ViolentPanda]

Israel descending into fascism.

Unfortunately, it was descending into fascism since before the state of Israel was born.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As I've previously written every Palestinian death is a nail in Israel's coffin. They aren't just up against the poor Palestinians however, there's the Ummah out there that numbers 1.5 billion.

Currently irrelevant though, because the Ummah isn't a unity, it's composed of a mass of heterogeneous factions, sects and nationalities. Come a Kaliphate, however...

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is pie in the sky and, IMO, I don't think it helps resolve the conflict and I don't think it's right to give false hope to Palestinian refugees that this is a possibility. What is possible is the two state settlement that's been on the table for over 30 years, the settlement that the entire world agrees with, including Hamas and, if I remember correctly, about 85% of polled Palestinians. The only countries who repeatedly vote against it are the US, Israel and countries like Tuvalu and Micronesia, fuck knows why countries like Tuvalu vote against it.

Because the US weighs them off in aid.