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Gaza under attack yet again.

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Israel is working to push Palestinians out of Gaza, they are exerting continuing pressure, of poor living conditions and regular attacks, with the aim that Palestinians will give up and leave. This is the only solution they have, they see no other options. And in Gaza and the West Bank, Israeli settlements continue. Israel's final solution is to drive the Palestinians completely out of Palestine.

Israel does not see any other solution, and no one else in the region or further afield has the military or political power or will to force them to consider any other options.
 
quiquaquo said:
Well, a multi ethnic Palestine is (and was) the only solution, the potential for all there is enormous.
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This is pie in the sky and, IMO, I don't think it helps resolve the conflict and I don't think it's right to give false hope to Palestinian refugees that this is a possibility. What is possible is the two state settlement that's been on the table for over 30 years, the settlement that the entire world agrees with, including Hamas and, if I remember correctly, about 85% of polled Palestinians. The only countries who repeatedly vote against it are the US, Israel and countries like Tuvalu and Micronesia, fuck knows why countries like Tuvalu vote against it.
 
The Jews think they are the chosen people? Their history going back thousands of years has been that they have been hated as outsiders and every so often there has been an initiative to kill every single one. Can see why the Palestinians would bear the brunt of this!
 
The IDF Facebook page is quite something to behold. Leaving aside its propaganda and focussing on the comments people leave is quite interesting. Plenty of 'Go Israel' type comments as you'd expect but it's the equally plentiful 'Wipe out Hamas scum' comments that accompany them. It never occurs to the people making these comments that they're actually calling for a democratically elected government (Israel) to 'wipe out' another democratically elected government (Hamas). These same people would foam at the mouth if, say, French people called on its government to wipe out Israel, there'd be absolute fury worldwide if the French government made the same proclamations about Israel as the Israeli politicians make about Palestinians mentioned earlier. Also, those same people foam at the mouth when Hamas refuses to recognise Israel in words and carp on about how Hamas wanna destroy Israel, but Israel not only makes pronouncements like the politicians mentioned earlier, not only refuses to recognise Palestine in words but takes active measures to crush the Palestinians and further annexe their land, not to mention Syria's land too. The double standards are just absolutely astounding!
 
Humberto said:
The Jews think they are the chosen people? Their history going back thousands of years has been that they have been hated as outsiders and every so often there has been an initiative to kill every single one. Can see why the Palestinians would bear the brunt of this!
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Why can you see the Palestinians would bear the brunt of this?

I don't think it's necessary to even invoke the religious undertones to the conflict. Yes acknowledge them and yes discuss them because they are invoked but the bare bones of the conflict between the Israeli state and the Palestinian people is really easy to understand. Israel is the prime aggressor and it's in the wrong on pretty much every aspect in the conflict. There's no controversy about this.
 
Doctor Carrot said:
Why can you see the Palestinians would bear the brunt of this?

I don't think it's necessary to even invoke the religious undertones to the conflict. Yes acknowledge them and yes discuss them because they are invoked but the bare bones of the conflict between the Israeli state and the Palestinian people is really easy to understand. Israel is the prime aggressor and it's in the wrong on pretty much every aspect in the conflict. There's no controversy about this.
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The Jews are special and peculiar. Why Palestine and not Greenland?
 
Doctor Carrot said:
What? Why should anyone bare the brunt of Israeli assault? I dunno what point you're getting at here. In fact you're just repeating Israeli propaganda and justification for their actions.
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I'm not. I'm pointing out the obvious special catergory that the UK, America and now Russia place Israel in.
 
hipipol said:
please some links
I have an old work colleague who I would have thought a friend a few days ago is telling me what a shit I am and asking for where I get my "shit" from - his brother is in the IDF - both grew up in North London
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Personally I really do not like this attitude that Jews round the world are required to explicitly stand up and apologise for the actions of Israel. It has nothing to do with me and IMO it simply continues the conflation of Jews and Israel being one and the same and thus it major fuel for anti-Semitism.
 
Garek said:
Personally I really do not like this attitude that Jews round the world are required to explicitly stand up and apologise for the actions of Israel. It has nothing to do with me and IMO it simply continues the conflation of Jews and Israel being one and the same and thus it major fuel for anti-Semitism.
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Exactly.
 
Humberto said:
The Jews are special and peculiar. Why Palestine and not Greenland?
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Is it fuck special, Serbian nationalists came up with the same 'chosen people' stuff (the heavenly kingdom vs the earthly kingdom) and misinterpreted various concepts in religion/history in order to justify things, not to mention the British empire evoking religious concepts of chosen ness/British Israelism/divine rights etc to justify colonialism

Israel's actions are nothing to do with Judaism
 
Garek said:
Personally I really do not like this attitude that Jews round the world are required to explicitly stand up and apologise for the actions of Israel. It has nothing to do with me and IMO it simply continues the conflation of Jews and Israel being one and the same and thus it major fuel for anti-Semitism.
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Exactly.
 
Doctor Carrot said:
18000 soldiers are being called up over night according to the BBC!

The Israeli cabinet have apparently wanted a ground invasion from the beginning. Did I mention the Israeli government is fucking insane?
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Not necessarily. there is an argument to be had that the Israelis want the Palestinians gone from Gaza entirely because a large natural gas field is situated just off the coast:

Yesterday, Israeli defence minister and former Israeli Defence Force (IDF) chief of staff Moshe Ya'alon announced that Operation Protective Edge marks the beginning of a protracted assault on Hamas. The operation "won't end in just a few days," he said, adding that "we are preparing to expand the operation by all means standing at our disposal so as to continue striking Hamas."

This morning, he said:

"We continue with strikes that draw a very heavy price from Hamas. We are destroying weapons, terror infrastructures, command and control systems, Hamas institutions, regime buildings, the houses of terrorists, and killing terrorists of various ranks of command… The campaign against Hamas will expand in the coming days, and the price the organization will pay will be very heavy."

But in 2007, a year before Operation Cast Lead, Ya'alon's concernsfocused on the 1.4 trillion cubic feet of natural gas discovered in 2000 off the Gaza coast, valued at $4 billion. Ya'alon dismissed the notion that "Gaza gas can be a key driver of an economically more viable Palestinian state" as "misguided." The problem, he said, is that:

"Proceeds of a Palestinian gas sale to Israel would likely not trickle down to help an impoverished Palestinian public. Rather, based on Israel's past experience, the proceeds will likely serve to fund further terror attacks against Israel…

A gas transaction with the Palestinian Authority [PA] will, by definition, involve Hamas. Hamas will either benefit from the royalties or it will sabotage the project and launch attacks against Fatah, the gas installations, Israel – or all three… It is clear that without an overall military operation to uproot Hamas control of Gaza, no drilling work can take place without the consent of the radical Islamic movement."...​
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It is probably not the whole story, but given their past form for stealing resources such as water it is not entirely unlikely.


​
 
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...-war-gaza-palestine-natural-gas-energy-crisis

Here's a surprise and Blair's involved of course.

Earlier this year, Hamas condemned a PA deal to purchase $1.2 billion worth of gas from Israel Leviathan field over a 20 year period once the field starts producing. Simultaneously, the PA has held several meetings with the British Gas Group to develop the Gaza gas field, albeit with a view to exclude Hamas – and thus Gazans – from access to the proceeds. That plan had been the brainchild of Quartet Middle East envoy Tony Blair.
 
At the end of the day Israel and the so called "Caliphate" of ISIS have the same validity and justification for their existence. Very little if not zero. Like it or not Palestine is the only solution and future.
 
Garek said:
Personally I really do not like this attitude that Jews round the world are required to explicitly stand up and apologise for the actions of Israel. It has nothing to do with me and IMO it simply continues the conflation of Jews and Israel being one and the same and thus it major fuel for anti-Semitism.
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This times a hundred.

The state of Israel does not = "The Jews". There's enough to be sickened about here without adding more to the cesspit.
 
Humberto said:
As for calling Israel 'the Jews' that was a lazy one, soz.

Ok. Its 'unique'. I don't think they should be but that is how they are treated by western govts and the media. Its obvious.
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No it's not. The state of Israel and its supporters claim Jews are chose, unique and so on and they operate a huge propaganda campaign to drive this point home. The Israeli lobby is very powerful in western governments, particularly UK and America, that's why you get the likes of Cameron and Gove to name a couple coming out saying how they're 'friends of Israel' which is actually the name of an organisation operating under the Israel lobby umbrella.

Furthermore the state operates a smear campaign to undermine its critics by labelling any critic of Israel anti semitic, and I do mean ANY critic they can find too, the online comment operation they have is quite something. Then there's the whole 'we've suffered horrendously throughout history' which of course Jews have but the Israeli propaganda machine plays on this, disgustingly I might add, in order to justify its crimes.

I think it's all been unravelling a bit in the last few years in particular and it's losing support all over now, it's why I think they're insane for doing this in terms of their support but then again there's only one country's support they really give a fuck about, and even that's starting to waver, among members of the public anyway.
 
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