Gaza under attack yet again.

[ViolentPanda]

We're discussing the conflict vp. I'm allowed to voice opinion without being shut down on the basis of my views being irrelevant because I'm not a Gazan.

I'm saying that your view is irrelevant to the situation, not to the board - i.e. your view has no effect or influence, and is therefore irrelevant to the situation. It's nothing to do with you not being a Gazan.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

So your argument is don't give any money because people in positions of power in the country you live are arming Israel? Yeah that makes sense and in no way says to the people of Gaza that everybody in the UK is a warmongering fuckwit who supports Israel's occupation.

I just don't see the point. I think bugging your MP to stop arming Israel is probably a better thing to do, not that you can't do both. What's the point in patching people up just so as they can be shot again? I filled in an Amnesty petition thing that went off to somebody in govt, but I think a personal e-mail, even if just a few sentences, shows more commitment.

Johnny Vodka - have you had a reply from your MP? Is hers?

Only sent last night. The quick automated reply basically said not to expect a response too soon.

I'm up for boycotting Israel too, if I can remember to look where my supermarket veg is from.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I refer you back to the Hamas covenant and it makes it clear that there is no path of negotiation.
(This is from Yale University which I belive is quite respected? I'm sure you'll tell me that it's been infultrated by Zionists...)

You're rather pathetic, attempting to categorise me as some sort of wild-eyed conspiracy theorist who sees Zionists behind everything. This is possibly because your argument is so poor that you need to resort to insult to get attention.

Peaceful Solutions, Initiatives and International Conferences:
Article Thirteen:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."
Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?
"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp​

I'm somewhat amused that you've posted up the same MEMRI-translated version of the charter, but are now claiming extra puissance for it on the strength of it being posted on Yale's website. It's actually on pages held by a donor to the university, so has no "official" gloss to it whatsoever, whatever you might like people to think. Don't you bother to actually fact-check before posting?

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's fucking pointless because it's just rhetoric but I'll show you anyway:

http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html

If you don't trust that source then just use google.

Now ignore the rhetoric and look at actions. Who is doing more to try and reach a settlement? Israel or the Palestinians including Hamas?

Look, HAMAS are evil, mmkay?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Weisel should be ashamed of himself, allowing himself to be used, and by that fucking disgrace Boteach too.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Dilemma: is there any point in donating to charities helping Palestinian casualties while the UK is still arming Israel?

I think you're misunderstanding how the arms trade works. Most weapons are stockpiled, and in this case what the UK has been exporting to the state of Israel isn't for the most part guns and ammo, it's cryptography equipment to enhance the IDF and MOSSAD's signals intelligence capability and enable them to track any "person-of-interest" (including, but not exclusive to, Palestinians) in real time, unless they routinely remove their SIM and their battery.
Me, I've donated regardless, because Gazans don't just need help during the bad times - because of what the sateate of Israel has done to the territory for the last several decades, they need help at all times, especially in terms of medicine and nutrition.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hello i'm an old lady that can't breathe through my nose because of all my plastic surgery.

Shouldn't that be "...can't breathe through what looks like my nose, but is actually flesh from my left buttock, because of all my plastic surgery"?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've given money to a charity helping Palestinian casualties. Am I "missing the point" too? Or are you just a self-satisfied fuckwit?

If he is, he's a self-satisfied fuckwit whose MP, if she's the same sort of rat-fucker as the rest of them, will be turning his email over to the security services about....now.

 

[teqniq]

From the roof of the BBC:

South Africa, probably Capetown

This one is Capetown according to the tweet

Yemen

 

[Johnny Vodka]

If he is, he's a self-satisfied fuckwit whose MP, if she's the same sort of rat-fucker as the rest of them, will be turning his email over to the security services about....now.

I hope to at least get an anal probe out of it.

Seriously, I can see where you're coming from re charity, but it looks to me what the Palestinians need is political action more than charity - not just an arms embargo on Israel, but other obvious stuff like easing of the blockade, more freedom of movement, etc.

I think when it comes to Israel also people are pretty mealy-mouthed in case they're accused of anti-semitism, with the effect that could have on employment, for example (or am I being paranoid?). I don't hear many people talking about this irl.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I just don't see the point. I think bugging your MP to stop arming Israel is probably a better thing to do, not that you can't do both. What's the point in patching people up just so as they can be shot again? I filled in an Amnesty petition thing that went off to somebody in govt, but I think a personal e-mail, even if just a few sentences, shows more commitment.

Well yes I can understand that but I still don't see how it's pointless to send any money, which is what you said earlier. This has always been the case with Israel, they're basically spongers. The US pays for them to blow Gaza up and the EU pays to put Gaza back together again. As Panda says it's not just for victims of Israel's latest rampage but at all times Gaza needs help because of Israel's occupation. I'm all for doing what you're doing but that doesn't mean we, as citizens, should feel stupid or think it's pointless to make a donation. If we stuck to that logic why bother with any donations at all? We're a capitalist society, as is most of the world, and yet capitalism causes most, if not all, of the problems charities like Oxfam, Comic Relief and so on work on.

I think Thom Yorke had it right when he said "I think sometimes all the charities are doing is mopping up the blood. It's a shame." That blood still needs mopping up though.

 

[Mumbles274]

Hyde park

 

[coley]

Well yes I can understand that but I still don't see how it's pointless to send any money, which is what you said earlier. This has always been the case with Israel, they're basically spongers. The US pays for them to blow Gaza up and the EU pays to put Gaza back together again. As Panda says it's not just for victims of Israel's latest rampage but at all times Gaza needs help because of Israel's occupation. I'm all for doing what you're doing but that doesn't mean we, as citizens, should feel stupid or think it's pointless to make a donation. If we stuck to that logic why bother with any donations at all? We're a capitalist society, as is most of the world, and yet capitalism causes most, if not all, of the problems charities like Oxfam, Comic Relief and so on work on.

I think Thom Yorke had it right when he said "I think sometimes all the charities are doing is mopping up the blood. It's a shame." That blood still needs mopping up though.

And mebbes it's a long winded excuse for not getting his wallet out

 

[likesfish]

We buy more kit off israel than we buy so its like that book " how the west armed saddam"
More like how the entire world armed saddam

Israel exports arms and gets everything virtually else gratis from the states
Of the 8 billion of dual use military kit £7.5 billion was for cryptographic software for mobile phones

 

[MrSki]

London.

 

[goldenecitrone]

London.

I reckon there must have been easily 50,000 people going round Portland Place and down Oxford Street today.

 

[weltweit]

Apparently Israel carried out 50 air attacks on Gaza today, killing 5 and destroying 3 Mosques.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Spymaster Grandma Death Johnny Vodka iROBOT - would you just watch this, please?
45 minutes of your life.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I reckon there must have been easily 50,000 people going round Portland Place and down Oxford Street today.

Easily, probably more. I was out taking photos and decided not to attend the opening speeches so went around looking at people arriving. I didn't manage to get to the end of them - I thought after a while that I'd missed the start of the march and it had somehow changed course and looped back around past me, but no, it was just people on their way to the start.

(A few pics uploading at the moment.)

 

[TomUS]

Saw an interview with Theodore Postol from MIT who Finkelstein refers to. He said iron dome is about 5% effective against Gaza rockets & the main reason for low Israeli civilian casualties is it's early warning system & large number of bomb shelters. He also said the patriot system in Iraq war I was 0% effective.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Interesting albeit brief article in Social Worker about media bias in coverage of the Gaza onslaught. Written by Greg Philo from the Glasgow media group. It's mainly focussed on the BBC.

...So they tend to show Palestinian suffering and then “balance” that by giving the Israeli perspective on why it’s all happening. You get masses of material saying “Hamas is doing this” and “This is terrorism” or “Israel is under attack and responding”.

But you don’t get the Palestinian reasons for why the conflict is occurring and that is the greatest problem with the media coverage..."

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Gaza set from today: https://www.flickr.com/photos/redspotted/sets/72157646301202901

A few pics:


DSC00794 by redspotted, on Flickr


DSC00808 by redspotted, on Flickr


DSC00826 by redspotted, on Flickr


DSC00885 by redspotted, on Flickr

 

[Treacle Toes]

Spymaster Grandma Death Johnny Vodka iROBOT - would you just watch this, please?
45 minutes of your life.

Meditate on this pic too. It's not a scene from a movie. It's real.

 

[coley]

Spymaster Grandma Death Johnny Vodka iROBOT - would you just watch this, please?
45 minutes of your life.

Well worth watching but ultimately depressing esp as he knows what he is talking about

 

[coley]

Easily, probably more. I was out taking photos and decided not to attend the opening speeches so went around looking at people arriving. I didn't manage to get to the end of them - I thought after a while that I'd missed the start of the march and it had somehow changed course and looped back around past me, but no, it was just people on their way to the start.

(A few pics uploading at the moment.)

But until we get pictures like this from NY, LA, SF etc then it's all pissing in the wind, sorry to be so depressing but IMO it's the truth.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

"@Beltrew
Naval ships firing at the shore near our hotel- not sure what at but it sounded loud. Anyone more of an expert and would know?"

‏"@OccPalGaza
Israeli navy just shelled the remaining buildings at the Gaza Seaport with 10s of shells. 1250am"

 

[8115]

How are there so few people dead? (again).

 

[dylanredefined]

How are there so few people dead? (again).

The idf send warnings.

 

[coley]

"@Beltrew
Naval ships firing at the shore near our hotel- not sure what at but it sounded loud. Anyone more of an expert and would know?"

‏"@OccPalGaza
Israeli navy just shelled the remaining buildings at the Gaza Seaport with 10s of shells. 1250am"

Jeez, just reading the first few of those tweets gives you more understanding of the suffering these people are going through than a score of sanitised news feeds.

 

[coley]

The idf send warnings.

Very humanitarian of them, bastards.