Galloway's Workers' Party of Britain

[PTK]

.

 

[PTK]

I knew a fair amount about the CP as my grandad was a member for three decades, although leaving in the late '50s or early sixties, before I was born. I was only 16 when he died, but I'd been left with the impression that he resented the anti-Stalin stuff, which I did understand even then-he came from absolute poverty, had seen both his brothers die needlessly in WW1, was a manual worker all his life, had served in the army WW2 etc, and in his view Stalin and co. had taken on the capitalists and twatted them. I was drawn towards the YCL, but, as you say, it was disappointing. The Eurocoms were in charge, and to me they seemed to be to the right of Benn on many issues. I went to meetings of my local branch, which were a bit shambolic, and it wasn't long before I jumped ship for the ostensibly more dynamic Trots. Maybe didn't seem so at the time, but it was all good fun looking back.

China was in the news when I was a lad. It seemed genuinely revolutionary. I was attracted to Maoism.

 

[Sue]

I knew a fair amount about the CP as my grandad was a member for three decades, although leaving in the late '50s or early sixties, before I was born. I was only 16 when he died, but I'd been left with the impression that he resented the anti-Stalin stuff, which I did understand even then-he came from absolute poverty, had seen both his brothers die needlessly in WW1, was a manual worker all his life, had served in the army WW2 etc, and in his view Stalin and co. had taken on the capitalists and twatted them. I was drawn towards the YCL, but, as you say, it was disappointing. The Eurocoms were in charge, and to me they seemed to be to the right of Benn on many issues. I went to meetings of my local branch, which were a bit shambolic, and it wasn't long before I jumped ship for the ostensibly more dynamic Trots. Maybe didn't seem so at the time, but it was all good fun looking back.

My great uncle was in the CP and left in 56. He was an apprentice during the General Strike and was a big union man all his life. He also pretty much despised Labour from what I can recall. (He died when I was in my teens after years of ill health. I really wish I'd known him better as an adult -- he was a v smart and interesting man.)

 

[RD2003]

My great uncle was in the CP and left in 56. He was an apprentice during the General Strike and was a big union man all his life. He also pretty much despised Labour from what I can recall. (He died when I was in my teens after years of ill health. I really wish I'd known him better as an adult -- he was a v smart and interesting man.)

Same here-I wish my mum's dad hadn't died when I was so young, as he had all sorts of stories I'd have appreciated more when a bit older. He had a fucking life. Blacklisted in the '30s he had to earn a living as a casual labourer on building sites, and tried to form a union wherever he went. People can say whatever they want about the CPGB, but it nurtured some fucking fighters.

As an adolescent I remember him warning about what lay ahead with Thatcher. He used to say I should always remember that any kind of Labour government is better than a Tory one, and even a right-wing union is better than no union at all. On the latter point at least he's been proven correct.

 

[The39thStep]

I always understood that his parents were in the 'proper' CPGB, and he thought them too timid or something and rebelled. Although I could be wrong.

I vaguely remember him in recent years talking about holiday camps in East Germany or somewhere, which is more in line with the mainstream CP. Think it was on R4, where he has an enertaining little niche now that he's a national treasure.

I had a book , Children of the Revolution or something and it was about children of CPGB members . Long time ago but I think Sayles parents were in the CPGB but left to join the Maoists ?

 

[RD2003]

I had a book , Children of the Revolution or something and it was about children of CPGB members . Long time ago but I think Sayles parents were in the CPGB but left to join the Maoists ?

I think Sayle's pretty OK for a scouser.

 

[RD2003]

China was in the news when I was a lad. It seemed genuinely revolutionary. I was attracted to Maoism.

I can remember watching, at age 13, the footage of Mao's funeral on the news and thinking that we don't see this mass hysteria when one of our 'leaders' dies. It wasn't long before my view became more nuanced, but it did at least leave a faint impression that everything is dependent on your social reality, and that there is no 'normal' society. All the major wars we've witnessed since the end of the cold war have arisen largely from the mistaken belief that 'we' are normal and 'they' are not.

 

[A380]

I had a book , Children of the Revolution or something and it was about children of CPGB members …

It never did me any harm.

 

[Humberto]

I think Sayle's pretty OK for a scouser.

Sayle is great in anybody's book. He doesn't have to apologise for being a 'scouser'.

 

[RD2003]

It never did me any harm.

I remember that during the miner's strike, in my local group it was mainly the CPers (and some Labour lefts) who volunteered to put up miners' kids, feed and take them out on day trips etc etc for a while during the summer and autumn of '84, to give their parents a respite. They generally had stable family lives themselves, as opposed to the chaos we (mostly younger) Trots and others lived in, although I do realise that there were many CPers who were just as feckless as we were.

 

[RD2003]

Sayle is great in anybody's book. He doesn't have to apologise for being a 'scouser'.

Yes he does.

 

[Humberto]

Why?

 

[RD2003]

Why?

It's just a Manc thing. Don't worry.

 

[Humberto]

It's just a Manc thing. Don't worry.

well stick your manc thing up your hoop

 

[RD2003]

well stick your manc thing up your hoop

I will.

 

[Humberto]

Fucking joker

 

[tim]

It's worth pointing out at this juncture that the Tories have changed the rules and the next London Mayor election will be held using FPtP. Smaller parties had little ghchance before. None now.

Livingston stood as an independent against Labour and the Tories and won, so the risk of another upset was a real one with the right maverick candidate.

 

[The39thStep]

I think Sayle's pretty OK for a scouser.

He's great

 

[tim]

He's great

Are you Tony the Tiger in real life?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I knew a fair amount about the CP as my grandad was a member for three decades, although leaving in the late '50s or early sixties, before I was born. I was only 16 when he died, but I'd been left with the impression that he resented the anti-Stalin stuff, which I did understand even then-he came from absolute poverty, had seen both his brothers die needlessly in WW1, was a manual worker all his life, had served in the army WW2 etc, and in his view Stalin and co. had taken on the capitalists and twatted them. I was drawn towards the YCL, but, as you say, it was disappointing. The Eurocoms were in charge, and to me they seemed to be to the right of Benn on many issues. I went to meetings of my local branch, which were a bit shambolic, and it wasn't long before I jumped ship for the ostensibly more dynamic Trots. Maybe didn't seem so at the time, but it was all good fun looking back.

My grandad was also in the CP. He was arrested during the General Strike and then blacklisted meaning a) him and his family was turfed out of their house which was owned by the employer and b) he then had to walk 6 miles a day to Aston before doing a shift on the presses and then walking back.

My dad told me that his dad cheered when Stalin sent the tanks into Hungary for exactly the same reason as yours supported Stalin. He died before I was born so I never got the chance to talk to him which I regret as I would have loved to.

I've asked on here before if there are any good histories or archival resources on the British CP rank and file (as opposed to the New Left Review group) in this period because the class composition, discipline and seriousness marks it out from much of what passes for the left. Even as late as when I started work it was the CP stewards in the factories who were the most serious, strategic and impressive.

 

[A380]

I remember that during the miner's strike, in my local group it was mainly the CPers (and some Labour lefts) who volunteered to put up minerskids ….They generally had stable family lives themselves, as opposed to the chaos we (mostly younger) Trots and others lived in, although I do realise that there were many CPers who were just as feckless as we were.

…

…the class composition, discipline and seriousness marks it out from much of what passes for the left. Even as late as when I started work it was the CP stewards in the factories who were the most serious, strategic and impressive.

I’ve never thought of this before, and maybe it’s a false argument. It almost certainly won’t be popular on here, especially with some posters.

Is it possible that the CP was the last time there was a revolutionary party in the UK that was composed mostly of people who weren’t dysfunctional and /or excluded from their communities in some way?

After being raised by parents who where both paid full timers ( morning star and YCL) I dabbled with revolutionary end of politics for a while and am probably somewhat dysfunctional in many ways; I still know people who were, and some who are, involved in revolutionary politics of different left stripes. Now there are a few people who are grounded, sorted and well balanced. But they are the stand out exceptions.

Perhaps with the CP it was just the size of the movement. Perhaps it was because many members between 1900 and, say 1970 genuinely thought they would be part of a system that was actually running the country within a decade. ( rather than just protesting and offering an alternative vision) or perhaps it was the Russian influence keeping it sane by weeding out those they saw as liabilities to their mission?

(Perhaps it’s analogous to how the most effective and dangerous organised crime groups are composed of people who come from societies that are so poor that crime is a rational choice and so people committing crime are drawn from a much wider spectrum of people most of whom are stable and capable. Not irrational and flakey who fail at most things they have tried, including crime? )

Anyway, old commies mostly not mad, modern revolutionaries not so much. Discuss

 

[hitmouse]

Interesting question, I suppose one starting point would be to look at the idea of what "their communities" means, then and now? Also I suppose there is a slight temptation to reach for that Orwell quote about the fruit juice drinkers.

 

[The39thStep]

I’ve never thought of this before, and maybe it’s a false argument. It almost certainly won’t be popular on here, especially with some posters.

Is it possible that the CP was the last time there was a revolutionary party in the UK that was composed mostly of people who weren’t dysfunctional and /or excluded from their communities in some way?

After being raised by parents who where both paid full timers ( morning star and YCL) I dabbled with revolutionary end of politics for a while and am probably somewhat dysfunctional in many ways; I still know people who were, and some who are, involved in revolutionary politics of different left stripes. Now there are a few people who are grounded, sorted and well balanced. But they are the stand out exceptions.

Perhaps with the CP it was just the size of the movement. Perhaps it was because many members between 1900 and, say 1970 genuinely thought they would be part of a system that was actually running the country within a decade. ( rather than just protesting and offering an alternative vision) or perhaps it was the Russian influence keeping it sane by weeding out those they saw as liabilities to their mission?

(Perhaps it’s analogous to how the most effective and dangerous organised crime groups are composed of people who come from societies that are so poor that crime is a rational choice and so people committing crime are drawn from a much wider spectrum of people most of whom are stable and capable. Not irrational and flakey who fail at most things they have tried, including crime? )

Anyway, old commies mostly not mad, modern revolutionaries not so much. Discuss

I dont think it matter whether its a popular argument to be honest. In my experience both Militant and the SWP had some good hard working members who were respected in their workplaces and communities, raised families and were perfectly normal people. I knew quite quite a few ex-CP members who used to buy Socialist Worker and I knew members whose parents had been in the CP. I suspect the same would go for those who were members of Militant.

Btw who did you dabble with and for how long before you joined the Police?

 

[A380]

I dont think it matter whether its a popular argument to be honest. In my experience both Militant and the SWP had some good hard working members who were respected in their workplaces and communities, raised families and were perfectly normal people. I knew quite quite a few ex-CP members who used to buy Socialist Worker and I knew members whose parents had been in the CP. I suspect the same would go for those who were members of Militant.

Btw who did you dabble with and for how long before you joined the Police?

Militant was my Trot dabble of choice. TBF one of the few people I kept in touch with from those days went on to become a train driver and still very active in their union, they were one of the exceptions to my, possible, rule.

But after that did have a couple of friends in/ex the SWP.

 

[A380]

Interesting question, I suppose one starting point would be to look at the idea of what "their communities" means, then and now? Also I suppose there is a slight temptation to reach for that Orwell quote about the fruit juice drinkers.

I'd forgotten that quote till I just looked it up. I'm worried I'm channeling Eric now...

 

[DotCommunist]

I like that quote particularly because the things considered beardy weird left that are now commonplace. Oh no, fruit juice! the working man can't be expected to enjoy the juice of a fruit, madness. Its rich coming from him too because I've read descriptions of how he lived, at eton, with his week old samovar full of tea and his 'everything is an ashtray' attitude to smoking. log/own eye

 

[PTK]

I am old enough to remember when there was the choice of joining the CP, the WRP, the IS/SWP, the IMG, and Militant.

It seems to me that sometimes the group someone joined was in part accidental. It was often a question of which group they happened to come into contact with first. It was also in part social psychological. Different groups tended to consist of, and attract, people of particular dispositions. Militant were more “working class” and boring, the IS/SWP more “middle class” and interesting. The IMG were very exciting, the WRP sinister.

I think that people joined the smaller groups often because they were disillusioned with the larger groups, and in part this disillusionment was driven not simply by politics but because they felt like outsiders.

I think that the CP had less of a “type” than the smaller groups. I think that this is because it was bigger. It was bigger because it had been rooted in working class struggle from its inception. The less rooted in the class struggle a group is, then the more likely it is to be eccentric, it seems to me.

David Aaronovitch wrote a book about growing up as the child of CP members called “Party Animals”, some of which I read earlier in the year. (I must finish it!) My parents knew his Dad (not well, but I think he came round our house a couple of times when I was a kid). I think it gives a good idea of the culture of CP families of my generation. I particularly liked the description of how we marvelled at the achievements of the space programme of the USSR, and saw this as a demonstration of the superiority of the USSR.

Aaronovitch is now right-wing, of course, but defends the memory of the historian Eric Hobsbawm, and attacks those who, after the death of the latter, said that he was no different to those who were apologists for the Nazi regime.

My parents did not join the CP because they wanted to cheer on mass murder, nor did those of Aaronovitch or anyone else. They joined to try to bring about a world in which classes would cease to be, in which there would be no exploitation, in which ethnic and national divisions would be overcome, in which all men and women would be brothers and sisters. Hobsbawm believed in those things too, and I commend Aaronovitch for defending the sincerity of Hobsbawm and the members of the political tradition in which he was raised

 

[A380]

I like that quote particularly because the things considered beardy weird left that are now commonplace. Oh no, fruit juice! the working man can't be expected to enjoy the juice of a fruit, madness. Its rich coming from him too because I've read descriptions of how he lived, at eton, with his week old samovar full of tea and his 'everything is an ashtray' attitude to smoking. log/own eye

‘Feminist’ for a start….

 

[A380]

I am old enough to remember when there was the choice of joining the CP, the WRP, the IS/SWP, the IMG, and Militant.

It seems to me that sometimes the group someone joined was in part accidental. It was often a question of which group they happened to come into contact with first. It was also in part social psychological. Different groups tended to consist of, and attract, people of particular dispositions. Militant were more “working class” and boring, the IS/SWP more “middle class” and interesting. The IMG were very exciting, the WRP sinister.

I think that people joined the smaller groups often because they were disillusioned with the larger groups, and in part this disillusionment was driven not simply by politics but because they felt like outsiders.

I think that the CP had less of a “type” than the smaller groups. I think that this is because it was bigger. It was bigger because it had been rooted in working class struggle from its inception. The less rooted in the class struggle a group is, then the more likely it is to be eccentric, it seems to me.

David Aaronovitch wrote a book about growing up as the child of CP members called “Party Animals”, some of which I read earlier in the year. (I must finish it!) My parents knew his Dad (not well, but I think he came round our house a couple of times when I was a kid). I think it gives a good idea of the culture of CP families of my generation. I particularly liked the description of how we marvelled at the achievements of the space programme of the USSR, and saw this as a demonstration of the superiority of the USSR.

Aaronovitch is now right-wing, of course, but defends the memory of the historian Eric Hobsbawm, and attacks those who, after the death of the latter, said that he was no different to those who were apologists for the Nazi regime.

My parents did not join the CP because they wanted to cheer on mass murder, nor did those of Aaronovitch or anyone else. They joined to try to bring about a world in which classes would cease to be, in which there would be no exploitation, in which ethnic and national divisions would be overcome, in which all men and women would be brothers and sisters. Hobsbawm believed in those things too, and I commend Aaronovitch for defending the sincerity of Hobsbawm and the members of the political tradition in which he was raised

Party Animals is a great book. I also wish I’d paid more attention to my parents friends, especially the older ones, when they came round. But then I was a kid.

As to your last paragraph, deffo See also Leon Rossellini’s ‘song of the old communist’.

 

[GroovySunday]

I dont think it matter whether its a popular argument to be honest. In my experience both Militant and the SWP had some good hard working members who were respected in their workplaces and communities, raised families and were perfectly normal people. I knew quite quite a few ex-CP members who used to buy Socialist Worker and I knew members whose parents had been in the CP. I suspect the same would go for those who were members of Militant.

Btw who did you dabble with and for how long before you joined the Police?

I don't know why, for example, people who raised families, are held up as being so much better than everyone else. There's plenty of people who are as you describe (and raise families for example) who are complete arseholes, not really deserving of any respect at all.

And the old mines and mills etc with the rugged, tough, straight, white working men are all gone. The old working class is dead. The rich people won. We need to focus on the present and not dwell on the past. But thats lefties for ya tho.

Anyway, back in ma day lad . . .