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Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster

Good summary here: http://www.economist.com/blogs/asiaview/2011/03/after_earthquake

Including:

Yukio Edano, the government’s chief spokesman, said that it was possible the core reactor had been “deformed” by its exposure above water, but he denied that it was a meltdown. However, he said there were further complications.

It was not clear whether the water was rising to cool the reactor, despite an injection of sea water.

Pressure is also building up within the reactor, but the release valve is malfunctioning, he said. Given the potential build-up of hydrogen, he issued a warning that there could be another explosion of the type that destroyed the outer building of the plant’s first reactor on March 12th. But he said there was no danger to the thick, steel-and-reinforced-concrete container that surrounds the reactor, and he is downplaying the risk of a dangerous leak of radiation.
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My uh-oh.
 
claphamboy said:
I woke up yesterday expecting the worst news had come on Friday, but it got worst with the explosion at the nuclear plant, and a very worrying few hours before it was confirmed as not being a major issue, and now the news that there's problems with this second reactor.:(
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Im afraid good news regarding the nuclear reactors should be treated with extreme skepticism. Even without complete meltdown or breaches of the containment, there has been core damage and radioactive substances associated with core damage have been detected off-site.

Radioactivity levels at a 3rd nuclear plant now seem to have triggered a further emergency, will post details if I see them.
 
elbows said:
Im afraid good news regarding the nuclear reactors should be treated with extreme skepticism. Even without complete meltdown or breaches of the containment, there has been core damage and radioactive substances associated with core damage have been detected off-site.

Radioactivity levels at a 3rd nuclear plant now seem to have triggered a further emergency, will post details if I see them.
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So far, quite small

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

Japanese authorities have also informed the IAEA that the first (i.e., lowest) state of emergency at the Onagawa nuclear power plant has been reported by Tohoku Electric Power Company. The authorities have informed the IAEA that the three reactor units at the Onagawa nuclear power plant are under control.
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e2a this..

Radiation levels at the Onagawa nuclear power plant in Miyagi prefecture are about 700 times higher than normal but are still low, the Tohoku Electric Power Company has said, according to the Maichi Shinbum website. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency dismissed the possibility that the Onagawa plant was to blame, saying it was likely caused by the radioactive substances that scattered when a hydrogen explosion hit the troubled Fukushima plant on Saturday.
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Surely that makes the Fukushima contamination a lot higher than so far being admitted
 
elbows said:
Im afraid good news regarding the nuclear reactors should be treated with extreme skepticism.
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As must everything about this.

I've not known how to put my thoughts on what needs to be understood about Japanese officialdom's attitude to releasing news.

So I'll leap in and give an exaggerated version to make it clear: It's not that long since officials who were the bearer of bad news, and in any way responsible, were expected to top themselves.

There are, of course, also practical crisis-management reasons for officials not publicising rational expectations about what the scale of the disaster will turn out to be: even more would very likely die as a result of panic, or even of despondency.

I find it interesting is that, as far as I've noticed, the Western media have co-operated. Imagine there'd been a tsunami in Belgium. The Sky News estimate of deaths would have peaked at about 300,000 on Saturday and be falling back to many many tens of thousands by tomorrow.
 
laptop said:
As must everything about this.

I've not known how to put my thoughts on what needs to be understood about Japanese officialdom's attitude to releasing news.

So I'll leap in and give an exaggerated version to make it clear: It's not that long since officials who were the bearer of bad news, and in any way responsible, were expected to top themselves.

There are, of course, also practical crisis-management reasons for officials not publicising rational expectations about what the scale of the disaster will turn out to be: even more would very likely die as a result of panic, or even of despondency.

I find it interesting is that, as far as I've noticed, the Western media have co-operated. Imagine there'd been a tsunami in Belgium. The Sky News estimate of deaths would have peaked at about 300,000 on Saturday and be falling back to many many tens of thousands by tomorrow.
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Causing panic is one of the main reasons I've decided they're keeping things a bit on the quiet side. Tbf, mass panic is probably the last thing Japan needs
 
Open Sauce said:
So far, quite small

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
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Thanks. Found this:

Radiation levels at the Onagawa nuclear power plant in Miyagi prefecture are about 700 times higher than normal but are still low, the Tohoku Electric Power Company has said, according to the Maichi Shinbum website. Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency dismissed the possibility that the Onagawa plant was to blame, saying it was likely caused by the radioactive substances that scattered when a hydrogen explosion hit the troubled Fukushima plant on Saturday.
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Hmm, good news that is actually bad news, if its even true.
 
elbows said:
Hmm, good news that is actually bad news, if its even true.
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Depends how you define 'good news', compared to what could happen, like when Chernobyl released radioactive material 400 times that caused by the bombing of Hiroshima, this is indeed 'good news'.
 
claphamboy said:
Depends how you define 'good news', compared to what could happen, like when Chernobyl released radioactive material 400 times that caused by the bombing of Hiroshima, this is indeed 'good news'.
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I think it was meant that the good news that Onagawa is not the cause of the leak is bad news because the contamination from Fukushima is greater than we have been led to beleive
 
Open Sauce said:
I think it was meant that the good news that Onagawa is not the cause of the leak is bad news because the contamination from Fukushima is greater than we have been led to beleive
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Yes, thats what I meant. Given that there was talk of giving people Iodine tablets yesterday, the reassuring messages that were emerging at the same time mean little.

Pumping sea water into several reactors is a sign of desperation.

Comparisons with Chernobyl are a bit misleading for a few reasons, for a start these reactors are not going to burn in the same way, even if they meltdown. But the stakes are still quite high. Only with time will we learn the extent of contamination. Either way it seems that at least 2 of the reactors are never going to be brought back to life after this, they have been compromised too much.

Meanwhile:

1606: A pump within the cooling system of one of the reactors at the Tokai nuclear power plant has stopped working, according to the Kyodo news agency. The plant is located in the Naka district of the central prefecture of Ibaraki, and is operated by the Japan Atomic Power Company.
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Sky News has a bit of a dilemma. Their nuclear pundit was being quite cheery and saying there's nothing to worry about. Then the French advised all their citizens in Tokyo to evacuate as a precaution against nuclear fallout.
 
nick h. said:
Sky News has a bit of a dilemma. Their nuclear pundit was being quite cheery and saying there's nothing to worry about. Then the French advised all their citizens in Tokyo to evacuate as a precaution against nuclear fallout.
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Well if the Japanese have evacuated 170,000...
 
nick h. said:
That's just within a 12 mile radius of the plant. Tokyo is 180 miles away. What if all the people in that area take the French advice? There are 35 million people in the Tokyo area...
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Oh, never realised the advice was extending that far!
 
Interesting post on why there won't be 'a Chenobyl' with the Japanese nuclear power stations.

http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/

edit although the comments make for interesting reading especially as to whether the Japanese plants have 'core catchers' that owuld take the nuclear fuel should the meltdown 'burn through' the bottom of their casing. Some are claiming this is not the case. I cant find any info to confirm or deny.

edit: These reactors do not have core catchers as they are a relatively recent design.
 
Corax said:
To be fair it's quite an in-depth piece, possibly not lending itself to summation. I got half way through before my gnat-like attention gave way, but it is quite interesting.
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I realise that, but my attention span at the moment is even shorter than a gnat's
 
Minnie_the_Minx said:
Blimey, I'm not reading all that. Summary please? (In English)
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A post, allegedly an email send to a friend by Dr J. Oehmen, a PhD Scientist, whose father has extensive experience in Germany’s nuclear industry. Dr Josef Oehmen studied Mechanical Engineering at the Technical University Munich and received a PhD, also in Mechanical Engineering, from the ETH Zurich. While working in industry, he obtained an MBA degree. He is currently employed as a Research Scientist at MIT. His major researchinterest lies in risk management along the engineering value chain and the application of lean principles to the product design process.

Anyway, he said it is safe, there are so many layers they could not all go wrong, and if it does, the core catcher will save everyone...except the reactor doesn't have one.

He also says all radiation is gone - despite readings 100Km away in Onagawa (and rumours of high levels in Munich)

In summary, a pro-nuclear press release, not an email to a friend which is making it's way around the blogsphere
 
Minnie_the_Minx said:
Blimey, I'm not reading all that. Summary please? (In English)
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If you have kept reasonably well informed about the situation then there isnt that much new in that document. They tell the story of what happened in a way that makes sense and fits with the other details that have emerged. They have gone overboard with the reassuring tone in my opinion, especially when it comes to the stuff that was released, and they have made assumptions about the state of reactor 1 now, and what will happen to it in future.

The amount & quality of info released in the last 12 hours has been fairly poor. Its certainly possible that the worst is over at reactor 1, that 2 is under control and that the worst danger of explosion has passed at number 3. That we havent heard about 3 exploding today is good news at least. Alternatively, I dont think we are quite out of the woods yet. If no further problems occur, then it wil still take some time to discover level of damage to the 2 cores and their fuel, and the level and spread of contamination.
 
Reasonable explanation if pro-nuclear.The bit that struck me was they trucked in mobile generators but couldn't use them because the plugs were different.:confused: That's insane there must be multiple points where the output of the gens could be simply bolted onto the existing wiring.Nuclear incident because of wrong plugs,doesn't make sense.
 
So, it's looking like meltdown on Two then?

I will never eat another fish in my life :( Or, breath. Seems breathing is shit too.

I'm sticking to fags, booze and drugs with lots of sleep. Shit for people close to the crap, and it will affect all in time, but for the time being...
 
Damn, cnn suggest as above, hopefully everyone is far enough above ground level to be safe from a 10 foot surge, i remain suspicious about the true extent of the problems with the plants. White smoke reported to be coming from reactor 1, i don't know what that means tbh
 
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