Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster

[scooter]

a helicopter filmed it and the tide has surged out

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

Oh poor Japan, another hydrogen explosion at a reactor. Wall of the building has collapsed. Must have happened really recently, saying it happened at 11.08am Japan time.

No mention of a tsunami on NHK though.

 

[scooter]

Maybe it's a false alarm. Has there been another aftershock that could have triggered it?

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

I dunno, all they're reporting on NHK is the explosion, no mention of anything else.

 

[OneStrike]

Looks like there is no new tsunami, i'd hate to think the news channels were seeking viewing figures by jumping on the story. The initial time frame has passed mercifully re the most recent reported wave. I see no evidence of a big recent quake.

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

Plant operator injured apparently. Poor, poor Japan, this is such a fucking nightmare.

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

Oh now they're saying 7 people are missing from the plant. But that no one is injured, and the plant operator just has a bruise.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Oh now they're saying 7 people are missing from the plant. But that no one is injured, and the plant operator just has a bruise.

Sky just said 7 missing and 3 injured

 

[Weller]

Does not seem to be getting any better with each new day , very sad the workers at these places must be going through hell

 

[Balbi]

Does not seem to be getting any better with each new day , very sad the workers at these places must be going through hell

I'd suspect those workers will not be around for a very long time, given the radiation leaks.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

it seems a lot bigger than the last one I wonder if this just blew the roof off or the whole building the one in the middle must go next...

 

[ska invita]

on the guardian it is saying that according to officials the explosion (above, "number 3 reactor had been anticipated and was similar to the explosion seen previously at the number 1 reactor") was 'safe' - core remains intact etc, "However, Japanese media are reporting that cooling has now failed at a third reactor at the plant (confusingly, number 2 reactor)" <isnt cooling the one that really musn't fail?

seems like reactor 1 was the one that blew up a couple of days ago now, reactor 3 is the one that just went up - both cores remain intatct, but reports of reactor 2 cooling failing.

 

[Barking_Mad]

those cores must be made of super strong shit.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Guardian reporting, their emphesis:

The No 2 reactor at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi plant has lost all its cooling capacity, according to Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

NHK World is reporting that Tokyo Electric Power Company, which owns the plant, has notified the agency of an emergency at the No 2 reactor.

This is the second emergency notice for the reactor. The utility firm told the agency shortly after the quake on Friday that the reactor's emergency cooling power system had failed.

Since then, the company tried to cool the reactor by circulating water by steam power, instead of electricity. But an attempt to lower the temperature inside the vessel that houses the reactor did not work well.

Fears of a hydrogen explosion at the vessel housing building are growing as the water level of the reactor is falling. A reaction with the steam and exposed fuel rods generates a large amount of hydrogen.

 

[cybertect]

Reasonable explanation if pro-nuclear.The bit that struck me was they trucked in mobile generators but couldn't use them because the plugs were different. That's insane there must be multiple points where the output of the gens could be simply bolted onto the existing wiring.Nuclear incident because of wrong plugs,doesn't make sense.

The New York Times has a different explanation of why the mobile generators couldn't be used

Fukushima was designed by General Electric, as Oyster Creek was around the same time, and the two plants are similar. The problem, he said, was that the hookup is done through electric switching equipment that is in a basement room flooded by the tsunami, he said. “Even though you have generators on site, you have to get the water out of the basement,” he said.

 

[Dr Jon]

Some interesting analysis here: How Black is the Japanese Nuclear Swan?

A hydrogen release is very much part of a meltdown scenario, and difficult to imagine hydrogen explosion scenarios on the scale of what was seen at Fukushima 1 that would not involve compromising the reactor pressure vessel

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

Kyodo News has reported in the last five minutes that the fuel rods at the No 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi are now fully exposed.

 

[holteman]

Number 2 reactor is now almost completley empty, Sky just reported that a spokesmen stated meltdown of fuel rods damaging the reactor could not be ruled out.... I pray i'm wrong but i think we are getting very close to meltdown territory, i dont like what being said ad how this is still getting worse days later

 

[bi0boy]

Unlike 1 and 3, #2 is a MOX reactor containing weapons-grade plutonium. Given the core has already lost all coolant it's hard to see how it can't overheat and go horribly pear-shaped.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

BBC are reporting a "meltdown alert"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

 

[laptop]

#2 is a MOX reactor containing weapons-grade plutonium.

Er, no: according to this nuclear industry source it's about 5 per cent plutonium. You'd need some pretty serious industrial chemistry to get that out.

 

[holteman]

They are now pumping sea-water into #2. This means we will probably see another explosion tomorrow when the steam rises containing hydrogen like waat happend with the other two

 

[Barking_Mad]

As pointed out earlier, these reactors are relatively old in design and outside the actual casing itself do not have anywhere for the nuclear material to go, should it escape (unlike later designs which have a bowl beneath them to fall into). It would mean (afaik) that should the worst happen the material would 'sink into the ground' around the reactor.

All of this is hypothetical at the moment and hopefully the main core will stay together.

 

[Weller]

BBC are reporting a "meltdown alert"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

But the US said it had moved one of its aircraft carriers from the area after detecting low-level radiation 160km (100 miles) offshore.

100 miles ,I know it says low levels but if theres none around the source , if its that low 100 miles away why would they move the carrier

 

[editor]

100 miles ,I know it says low levels but if theres none around the source , if its that low 100 miles away why would they move the carrier

Maybe because aircraft carriers don't move as fast as the wind, so if there's another explosion they wouldn't be able to GTFO in time?

 

[elbows]

Unlike 1 and 3, #2 is a MOX reactor containing weapons-grade plutonium. Given the core has already lost all coolant it's hard to see how it can't overheat and go horribly pear-shaped.

The reports I read yesterday suggested it was number 3 that had MOX, not number 2.

The explosion at number 3 looked bigger than the explosion at 1, and the shot showing damage afterwards tends to look a bit worse to me, although its not high enough quality to tell.

In addition to the perilous state of number 2 reactor, there also seem to be reports around today which suggest that cooling issues at these reactors will likely be an ongoing thing for a long time to come. I suppose this makes sense, for despite the reassuring words from experts about how low the levels of heat are compared to when the reactor is fully operational, residual heat is actually an issue for ages. Spent fuel has to be kept cool and in liquid for a long time after its been used, so we should expect the cores of the reactors to require equal care on an ongoing basis.

Watching the nuclear industry spin, and the words of some people who work in a non-PR capacity within the industry, has been quite revealing though not really surprising. They may still be correct that a worst-case scenario has been avoided, but partial or complete exposure of fuel rods in 3 reactors, 2 hydrogen explosions, and the need to release stuff from containment (which may yet have to be done again on reactors 1 and 3, let alone 2) is hardly a trivial matter. We can still hope that contamination over a wider area turns out to be limited, but as I am unable to 100% rely on all the statements about containment not beign damaged at any of these plants, and there are also questions over the state of the spent-fuel facilities after the explosions, I'll make no assumptions for now.

 

[Weller]

Maybe because aircraft carriers don't move as fast as the wind

then I shall avoid aircraft carrier travel

seriously though if its that low around the reactor they are not going to be able to help much if thats the purpose if they get so jittery 100 miles away , if its that worrying (levels now) 100 miles away inside an aircraft carrier that you have to move it you are a bit f*cked close to the reactor and a 20km exclusion doesnt sound safe enough to me
I just hope theres not too much industry spin going on about the "containment" I know they cannot risk panic but 3 problems 2 explosions I hope they have moved people far enough away , the horror of the workers on the apartment block roofs in danger zone crazily watching the glow at Chernobyl when it blew , miles away springs to mind .

Im not sure I quite believe that it couldnt happen here and that the cores are safe.

 

[elbows]

100 miles ,I know it says low levels but if theres none around the source , if its that low 100 miles away why would they move the carrier

Well on of the things we will notice at a time like this is lots and lots of talk about low-levels. And its true in as much as these are not stupendously high readings of a sort that would present an immediate danger to health. But that still does not mean people are safe to stay exposed to such levels, eg getting a months worth of natural exposure in an hour is not something you want to repeat for too many hours.

We dont have much helpful info to get a full sense of the issue. We dont know ongoing readings from a large number of locations, we dont know how much cesium or iodine is involved, and we dont know if the releases are happening on an ongoing basis or whether they mostly only occurred during venting and subsequent hydrogen explosions.

 

[elbows]

then I shall avoid aircraft carrier travel

seriously though if its that low around the reactor they are not going to be able to help much if thats the purpose if they get so jittery 100 miles away , if its that worrying (levels now) 100 miles away inside an aircraft carrier that you have to move it you are a bit f*cked close to the reactor and a 20km exclusion doesnt sound safe enough to me

Only time will tell whether the evacuation zone was sufficient. As well as the unknowns I mentioned in my past post, the wind direction is very important too. I read something earlier that suggests its due to switch to an unhelpful direction later, will top up my knowledge on this now. As for the US militaries ability to help, they can still do stuff but again taking wind direction into account.

There is no particular timeframe as to when we will be in possession of all the key facts necessary to draw a conclusion about the scale of this nuclear incident.

 

[elbows]

Im not sure if I am reading the charts on this site properly, but the 2nd chart seems to me to indicate that the winds at the lowest altitude are now due to be looping down, around and back up the part of the country where Tokyo is, at least according to this particular computer model?

http://ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/japani/