Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster

[elbows]

Unmanned T-Hawk drone crashed. It was collecting samples from the air near reactor 2 building when it failed, and crashed onto the roof of reactor 2 building. Its only small so it hasnt damaged anything or anyone.

 

[elbows]

The T-Hawk incident and also the failure of a Japanese robot on its first mission is described in this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...anding-on-roof/2011/06/24/AGWDZmiH_story.html

To be honest I've had my doubt about the Japanese robot since I saw this video of them testing it recently:



Looks like a fragile prototype to me that needs coaxing to do the things its supposed to.

 

[Mooncat]

Meanwhile, 8 new Nplants for the UK.

We'll just have to hope there's no earthquakes that knock the UK 8 feet to the east eh?

 

[mwgdrwg]

We'll just have to hope there's no earthquakes that knock the UK 8 feet to the east eh?

...and no terrorist attacks, no human error, no extreme weather, no mechanical failure, or some other unforseen accident

 

[Mooncat]

...and no terrorist attacks, no human error, no extreme weather, no mechanical failure, or some other unforseen accident

Would you like to compare the number of fatalities as a result of fission with any other source of power? The hydro dam breaking at Fukushima caused far more havoc and I'd wager loss of life but we're not seeing them phased out (and rightly so)

 

[elbows]

Loss of life is hardly the only measure. Economic damage, evacuation of land, lost farm produce, psychological impact, long term health concerns.

Even if human response to nuclear fears is of a disproportionate magnitude compared to other serious woes created by other sources of power, we cannot simply dismiss it because it isnt a 100% match with the reality, science, risk etc. If the human perception of nuclear contains much additional fear, then that just has to be factored in a dealt with, whether it is completely rational or not.

 

[Mooncat]

Loss of life is hardly the only measure. Economic damage, evacuation of land, lost farm produce, psychological impact, long term health concerns.

Even if human response to nuclear fears is of a disproportionate magnitude compared to other serious woes created by other sources of power, we cannot simply dismiss it because it isnt a 100% match with the reality, science, risk etc. If the human perception of nuclear contains much additional fear, then that just has to be factored in a dealt with, whether it is completely rational or not.

Oh indeed - the fact that only one reactor, IIRC older than Chernobyl, has caused comparatively minor (non psychological!) impact whilst the other is in cold shut down goes to show just how safe fission is.

The fears are unfounded and we will have to dismiss them - it looks our government has taken the rational choice to build new reactors anyway but the fact that you can't read a media article about it without seeing the word 'earthquake' shows how hard fought this is going to be

 

[elbows]

Oh indeed - the fact that only one reactor, IIRC older than Chernobyl, has caused comparatively minor (non psychological!) impact whilst the other is in cold shut down goes to show just how safe fission is. [/IMG]

What are you referring to? I cant figure out what you mean, since three reactors melted down at Fukushima, so I guess you arent talking about that.

 

[Mooncat]

What are you referring to? I cant figure out what you mean, since three reactors melted down at Fukushima, so I guess you arent talking about that.

Sorry I meant plants not reactors - there's Fukushima Daiichi (one) and Fukushima Daini (two). Daini is 10 years younger than Daiichi and can possibly be brought back online with minimal repairs.

Fukushima Daini Wiki

 

[elbows]

Oh right, it was your use of the word reactor that caused the confusion. 3 reactors are well knackered, so dont say 1. Im familiar with Daini, which was also in a perilous state early on, as suppression chamber capabilities were lost at multiple reactors there when the suppression chambers exceeded 100 degrees C. In the end what saved that plant from Daiichi levels of woe was that they still had some power available, and the tsunami did not flood everything so badly at Daini.

I recognise the energy realities we face, and so I know that nuclear power is likely to be part of the picture for a good while to come. I suspect that many other people are aware of the upside of nuclear, which is why we dont see levels of protest which seriously threaten the whole industry. There is still enough anti-nuclear sentiment to influence governments to a certain extent, clearly varying considerably by country at the moment, but another factor which threatens the nuclear renaissance is cost, and Fukushima wont help that any.

I really dont feel the need to downplay what happened at Fukushima just because I recognise why nuclear is still part of the picture. I can forgive people for attempting to downplay things if they are faced with totally hysterical views about what happened and the consequences, but when looking at things in a balanced way such downplaying completely disgusts me. 'Comparatively minor' compared to what exactly? This was a serious incident with long term implications.

Dosimeters are being given to about 280,000 children, and even if this measure is as much about reassuring people as it is actual serious risk, it means Im not in the mood for 'Nuclear Power? Yes Please' badges.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/24_01.html

 

[elbows]

Say cheese.

 

[Mooncat]

I called it 'comparatively minor' because I believe compared to the complete havoc caused by the rest of the tsunami, Fukushima is a side show.

 

[elbows]

Well its a question of time and space. In the short term, and in certain locations, the tsunami was indeed the much larger event, resulted in a huge number of deaths, etc. Over a longer time period and wider area, the nuclear disaster is likely to leave a pretty large mark on a lot of people, so Im not a huge fan of the comparison really.

 

[two sheds]

it looks our government has taken the rational choice to build new reactors

What price will the electricity be?

 

[laptop]

What price will the electricity be?

That all depends on how serious the UK government is about its policy promise that nuclear construction "will not be subsidised".

At the moment it looks as though they're going to give it a massive subsidy by fiddling the books on decommissioning costs, on top of the non-carbon generation subsidy.

So: a large part of the price will be paid by taxpayers in 2110 - if there are any.

 

[elbows]

Fukushima news continues to consist mostly of further 'teething problems' with the new water reprocessing system, the latest of which was a leak at the decontaminated end of the system that has now been rectified. A steady trickle of contamination news continues, the most recent of which I've seen seemed to involve radioactive cesium in ash from a household waste incineration plant in a district of Tokyo.

Ah yes and this classic from a TEPCO shareholders meeting:

TEPCO's Shareholders' Meeting Finally Over after 6 Hours
From the tweet of the journalist at the event:

During the Q&A session, an irate shareholder shouted at the TEPCO's management, "Go inside the reactor and die!"

A great commotion inside the hall ensued, and a snicker in the TEPCO's press room.

From http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/06/tepcos-shareholders-meeting-finally.html

 

[two sheds]

it looks our government has taken the rational choice to build new reactors anyway ...

How much will the electricity cost? It's a bit bloody pompous calling it a 'rational choice', suggesting that the renewable energy that nuclear will displace would be an irrational choice, without being able to say how much nuclear will cost.

 

[elbows]

Subplots with comedy value continue to emerge from this disaster.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e-officer-sacked/story-e6frg6so-1226084417906

THE face of Japan's nuclear disaster, Hidehiko Nishiyama, has been stripped of his spokesman's role over an alleged affair with a glamorous young co-worker.

Japan's Shukan Shincho magazine published details of the alleged liaison, including allegations Mr Nishiyama eschewed vigorous sex because of fear of dislodging his hairpiece. Last week, he tried to ease the scandal by apologising for "the fact that [the] story got reported in the media".

"I am sorry if this gave any misperceptions or concerns that I have been laying down on the job," he said.

And a more serious article on the same subject but without the tabloid sauce:

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110629D29JF256.htm

I had previously missed the news that his daughter works for TEPCO.

 

[laptop]

Been a bit busy, so not sure whether the excellent Elbows Update Service has covered the report behind this:

Nanao Kamada of Hiroshima University and colleagues found iodine-131 at doses of up to 3.2 millisieverts in six people in the first round of tests in early May, but none in late May...

Richard Wakeford of the Dalton Institute in Manchester... expressed surprise that iodine-131, with a half-life of eight days, was found in urine as late as May.
http://www.newscientist.com/article...ine-in-fukushima-poses-small-health-risk.html

New Scientist didn't find space to point out that it means there was criticality somewhere onsite in late April; nor in the longer blog piece at http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/06/radioactive-urine-revealed-in.html - tsk!

 

[elbows]

Been a bit busy, so not sure whether the excellent Elbows Update Service has covered the report behind this:



New Scientist didn't find space to point out that it means there was criticality somewhere onsite in late April; nor in the longer blog piece at http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/06/radioactive-urine-revealed-in.html - tsk!

Does it really mean that though? Its a possibility, but firm evidence of criticality, Im really not sure about that.

For sure the short half-life of I-131 means it should have decayed considerably. But given that an absolute shitload of it probably hit this area, even after many half lives there could be enough left to show up in people. To test this possibility I would need to know more about how amounts found in urine could be used to generate estimates of how much I-131 would need to be in the area to cause that much to be in the urine, and see if this number is of the same sort of order of magnitude as the possible amount that actually fell there. Unfortunately I dont think I have enough knowledge to have a stab at such a calculation.

I do not rule out the possibility that criticality occurred at some point later, and there have been a few events well after the initial disaster which posed interesting questions, unfortunately with few firm answers so far. For example reactor 3 has had a rather unstable temperature history since the end of the first phase of the crisis, although its kind of hard to know how accurate the temperature data is. Something may have happened to it in April for all I know, a few things sometimes come along that may sort of point in this direction but this possibility has still not been firmed up in a useful way. A lack of large spikes in amount of radiation detected on site after March gets in the way of strengthening the case for criticality, with data from further afield also tending to lack dramatic changes that would confirm something real bad happened much later on.

 

[elbows]

As for the urine, it takes an even more hideous twist when the humans in question are kids.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/30_35.html

Radiation detected in Fukushima children's urine
A group of Japanese citizens says radioactive materials have been detected in urine of 10 children in Fukushima Prefecture, where the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is located.

The Fukushima Network for Saving Children from Radiation collected urine samples from 10 elementary to high school students in the prefecture's capital Fukushima City. The samples were analyzed by a French research organization.

The group said at a news conference in Tokyo on Thursday that radioactive cesium was found in all of the samples, and that one from an 8-year-old girl contained 1.13 becquerels of cesium-134 per liter.

The group added that the children are thought to have taken in radioactive materials released from the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

The group said the test shows clearly that children living as far as 60 kilometers from the plant are suffering internal exposure. It urged the state and prefectural governments to immediately check children in Fukushima for such exposure.

The Japanese non-profit Radiation Effects Research Foundation says no health problems due to such radiation levels have been reported, and that people should not be overly concerned.
Thursday, June 30, 2011 20:12 +0900 (JST)

Humans have been shown well capable of arguing endlessly about what these sorts of things will mean for the health of lots of people. Because of Fukushima we are likely to get some better answers to some of these questions in the decades ahead. How I wish this 'opportunity to learn' had never arisen

 

[laptop]

Does it really mean [criticality] though? Its a possibility, but firm evidence of criticality, I'm really not sure about that.

...

But given that an absolute shitload of it probably hit this area, even after many half lives there could be enough left to show up in people.

11 March to (conservatively) 1 May = 50 days = 6.25 half-lives

So were there not to have been criticality after 11 March, we can extrapolate backward to levels at least 2^6.25 = 76 times higher than found in early May.

Which would be 76 * 3.2 millisieverts = 244 millisieverts from I-131 alone, which is more than a metric shedload, yes?

 

[elbows]

11 March to (conservatively) 1 May = 50 days = 6.25 half-lives

So were there not to have been criticality after 11 March, we can extrapolate backward to levels at least 2^6.25 = 76 times higher than found in early May.

Which would be 76 * 3.2 millisieverts = 244 millisieverts from I-131 alone, which is more than a metric shedload, yes?

I dont think its a good idea to do that sort of calculation using the 3.2 millisievert figure from that article. This is because that figure is quite likely an estimated exposure figure, ie the amount of radiation they estimate the person being tested has received over a period of time, based on whats been found in the urine in May, not the amount of radiation being emitted by the substances in their urine at a single moment in time.

A reason I suggest this possibility is the following line from the article:

This brings the dose in the two months following the disaster to between 4.9 and 14.2 millisieverts

 

[elbows]

Other developments:

Compulsory reductions in electricity use for heavy users (ie non-domestic) during the summer months has kicked in:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/01_01.html

Humans went onto the 5th floor of reactor building 4, and took some photos:

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_110630_03-e.pdf

Note that this reactor was out of action at the time of the disaster, as they were replacing the core shroud of the reactor. So the reactor was open at the time. Recently they have been filling the reactor well and the storage pit located next to it with water, since some equipment in this area will emit radiation, and water is used to shield workers from this. Water that was originally in these areas at the time of the disaster is though to have leaked through a gate that connects the reactor well with the spent fuel pool, which was actually kind of handy because if this is what really happened then it would helped somewhat with the water level in the fuel pool, at a crucial time when fears were high that the spent fuel pool may have run dry. Anyway I mention this now because the photos in above document show the reactor well full of water, and I probably havent spoken of this stuff much here before.

I think the reason they are interested in the Fuel Pool Cooling and Filtering System Valves during this survey & photoshoot of this area is that they would like to access these in order to hook up a replacement pool cooling system.

Some of the colour of certain things in the photos is likely the result of them spraying that dust-inhibiting substance onto reactor building 4's roof at some point earlier this month, and the off-white residue on certain equipment is the result.

And finally a report on why the reading in one location some way away fromthe plant had a recorded radiation reading that increased during the time when they were monitoring the environment after opening reactor building 2's doors. One factor was that they did not get out of the car at night, and the reason for this was stated as being 'to reduce the risk of animal encounters etc.'

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu11_e/images/110630e3.pdf

 

[elbows]

Yet more news, they are sending a vacuum cleaner thats being held by a robot into reactor 3 building, in order to hoover up some radioactive debris in a specific area of the building.

There are photos in this document. The robot is called warrior and in the photo on page 2 it looks rather out of sorts with its makeshift attachment, but hey if it works then I wont knock it.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_110630_04-e.pdf

 

[elbows]

edit - oops posted a message to completely the wrong messageboard! Time to stop paying attention to this stuff and go to bed!

 

[two sheds]

A bit of background to the rational decision to commit to nuclear in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jun/30/british-government-plan-play-down-fukushima

British government officials approached nuclear companies to draw up a co-ordinated public relations strategy to play down the Fukushima nuclear accident just two days after the earthquake and tsunami in Japan and before the extent of the radiation leak was known.

Internal emails seen by the Guardian show how the business and energy departments worked closely behind the scenes with the multinational companies EDF Energy, Areva and Westinghouse to try to ensure the accident did not derail their plans for a new generation of nuclear stations in the UK.

"This has the potential to set the nuclear industry back globally," wrote one official at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS), whose name has been redacted. "We need to ensure the anti-nuclear chaps and chapesses do not gain ground on this. We need to occupy the territory and hold it. We really need to show the safety of nuclear."

Nice to see they have their priorities right.

 

[elbows]

The robot vacuum cleaner did its work at reactor 3 building, but I've no idea how successful it was yet.



Other news is that they got a new cooling system working for reactor 3's spent fuel pool, bringing the temperature of that pool down considerably.

They still have to keep switching off the water decontamination system for periods of time due to issues, but the amount of water it has processed is starting to become appreciable.

There has been a leak in a pipe supplying water to reactor 5, but the water was not dangerous and they have fixed it now.

Also a tide barrier has been completed.

 

[elbows]

OK looks like the vacuuming brought down the radiation readings in some spots, but not by very significant amounts:

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_110703_01-e.pdf

 

[blueplume]

it's not about Fukushima! it's just a testimony about nuclear testing by a Japanese artist... i never saw that!

Isao Hashimoto