Feminism - where are the threads?

[SheilaNaGig]

This is very basic, but it discusses how existing biases in data can be mistaken for predictors, and ways of teasing things apart. There is loads of stuff out there that can be found with a simple keyword search.

AOC in the States has been bringing up the subject recently.

Is Artificial Intelligence Racist?

I know AI is psychopathic and dangerously bigoted. Are we isolating racism out from of all the other nasty bigotry that AI exhibits when left to its own devices?

 

[JudithB]

Because just being happy is a failure?

Is this in the context of endless growth?

Endless growth is cancer.

Exactly - the planet cannot sustain us if we continue to grow at the rate the IMF requires of us. We need to ask for what reason and what benefits

 

[8ball]

I know AI is psychopathic and dangerously bigoted.

#NotAllAI

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I think we discussed earlier this this year(?) how capitalism depends on ersatz jobs in order to self perpetuate. So basic income “fails” if there’s no growth.


(I’m imagining buthchersapron geinding his teeth at foolishness and naivety here...)

 

[Saul Goodman]

Did you look at the link?

I did.

 

[8ball]

I did.

Perhaps I should have said "did you click on the link and read some of the words that appeared on the screen".

 

[SheilaNaGig]

And it negates the value of "women's work" it focusses on getting people back into "work". The study should include the social care of dependents undertaken by those in receipt of the payment

Don’t dependents also get the universal basic income?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Perhaps I should have said "did you click on the link and read some of the words that appeared on the screen".

I read all of them. But I didn't see any mention of men having to work two more years than women before being allowed a state pension. Let's discuss that?

 

[8ball]

I read all of them. But I didn't see any mention of men having to work two more years than women before being allowed a state pension. Let's discuss that?

Coincidentally, I didn't see any mention of semiconductor physics.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Coincidentally, I didn't see any mention of semiconductor physics.

It's weird, sometimes I think your posts are OK, then other times I think you're only here to score points.

 

[8ball]

It's weird, sometimes I think your posts are OK, then other times I think you're only here to score points.

And sometimes I think you claim to have read things that you actually haven't.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Sex work seems to be the topic the majority want to discuss now. The question from a feminist perspective would be is sex work always a form of sexual exploitation?

My argument would be that any system that provides women at a price for men's consumption becomes a market of exploitation for I do not believe without the consent provided by the provision of cash for the services of sex a woman would choose to perform sex work. Women being viewed as a commodity reinforces the inequality of the sexes and maintains that women are no more than "vending machines" for men's desires.

From the whistles and catcalls on the street, to the exchange of cash for sex, perhaps we could draw a straight line in society's thinking?

Everyone is reduced to a commodity under capitallism. the commodity is embodied within the worker when they sell themselves to capital. that is the whole separation between the head and hand. literally basic class politics 101. the abolition of sex work requires the total obliteration of wage labour.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

In terms of universal basic income, I'd like to know more about where it was trialled and why I have the thought that it was dismissed as unworkable. Was it? If so, by whom and for what reason?

What is wrong with free money? |

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Yes, was about to add that edit.

It appeared to fail in terms of getting jobless people into jobs.
It just succeeded in making them happy.

And this once again shows that the proletariat's consciousness is far ahead of leftist crackpots. they are crying for a global campaign of reduction of labour hours whilst increasing labour's bargaining power simultaneously. but dead ends of democratisms amirite.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Everyone is reduced to a commodity under capitallism. the commodity is embodied within the worker when they sell themselves to capital. that is the whole separation between the head and hand. literally basic class politics 101. the abolition of sex work requires the total obliteration of wage labour.

Spot on. We're all whoring ourselves out to capitalism, and the highest risk (injury and death) jobs in the world are mostly performed by men. I'm fairly sure those crab fishers on the Bering straights would rather be paid the same money for flipping burgers, because I'm sure they don't do it for the scenery.

 

[JudithB]

Everyone is reduced to a commodity under capitallism. the commodity is embodied within the worker when they sell themselves to capital. that is the whole separation between the head and hand. literally basic class politics 101. the abolition of sex work requires the total obliteration of wage labour.

Spot on. We're all whoring ourselves out to capitalism, and the highest risk (injury and death) jobs in the world are mostly performed by men. I'm fairly sure those crab fishers on the Bering straights would rather be paid the same money for flipping burgers, because I'm sure they don't do it for the scenery.

But there is whoring yourself and WHORING yourself

You working for the man is not the same as you taking the man's cock inside you

 

[Saul Goodman]

But there is whoring yourself and WHORING yourself

You working for the man is not the same as you taking the man's cock inside you

Do you not think those fishermen on the Bering sea would rather fuck for their money than risk their lives in possibly the highest risk profession on the planet?
Those opportunities aren't open to ugly men, so they have to risk their lives in other ways. What they're doing is no different. They're risking their lives, because it's what they are forced to do in order to survive.

 

[JudithB]

Do you not think those fishermen on the Bering sea would rather fuck for their money than risk their lives in possibly the highest risk profession on the planet?
Those opportunities aren't open to ugly men, so they have to risk their lives in other ways. What they're doing is no different. They're risking their lives, because it's what they are forced to do in order to survive.

I think they would rather be on the Bering straight than having to suck cock

ETA Why not ask them?

 

[Saul Goodman]

I think they would rather be on the Bering straight than having to suck cock

Change that to "I think they would rather be on the Bering straight than having to lick pussy", and I'd say you're talking complete bullshit.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

What is wrong with free money? |

The question for a company is not if a technology is more productive than another, but whether it allows producing more cheaply than another. If a sweatshop achieves lower costs than a modern factory, then sweatshops are the adequate technological level of production for that capitalist branch of industry.

This is also why the “conventional wisdom” (Krugman) that in the past machines replaced low skilled labour but left high skilled jobs alone is wrong. Since the “industrial revolution” machines were also means to replace high skilled jobs with low skilled jobs if that allowed companies to save costs such as higher wages for specialists.

However, whether they can find another source of revenue, i.e. another job, does not depend on their needs. It depends solely on another company finding use for them in order to make profit.

But, as argued above, the wage is not a reward or remuneration but the lever to make workers come to work for the purpose of profit of a company. 15 This lever is as high and low as companies can get away with in the universal competition of workers for jobs. 16 Put differently, a small part of the wealth produced by workers is paid to workers in the form of wages. This way, they can sustain themselves as producers of a surplus from which they are excluded. In their agitation, proponents for a Universal Basic Income turn the wage into its opposite: the economic function of the wage seems not to be poverty and exclusion from social wealth, but is posited as wealth and participation.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Change that to "I think they would rather be on the Bering straight than having to lick pussy", and I'd say you're talking complete bullshit.

But that’s not what she said, is it.

Because the vast majority of those who pay for sex are men.

 

[JudithB]

Change that to "I think they would rather be on the Bering straight than having to lick pussy", and I'd say you're talking complete bullshit.

But you are missing or deliberately ignoring the point

Women do not buy men at the rate that men buy women.

Men are not vending machines of sexual favours to women.

We are talking about reality here, not some pretend world where men get to lick pussy for a living.

 

[Saul Goodman]

And women live longer than men.

Oh the equality!

But that’s not what she said, is it.

Because the vast majority of those who pay for sex are men.

But that's exactly what she said. I quoted it, so it must have been exactly what she said.

 

[JudithB]

Oh the equality!


But that's exactly what she said. I quoted it, so it must have been exactly what she said.

[/QUOTE]
Then I hope my post clarified what I meant

 

[ManchesterBeth]

so what's the actual proposal to abolish sex work within wage labour? criminalising it obviously doesn't work. And I think prostitution is a grotesque aborration, but surely that necessitates organising against the pimps?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Do you not think those fishermen on the Bering sea would rather fuck for their money than risk their lives in possibly the highest risk profession on the planet?
Those opportunities aren't open to ugly men, so they have to risk their lives in other ways. What they're doing is no different. They're risking their lives, because it's what they are forced to do in order to survive.

It might be the highest risk in terms of the job you do but you’re still safer than women just by being a man.

 

[Saul Goodman]

We are talking about reality here, not some pretend world where men get to lick pussy for a living.

Exactly!
Men don't get the opportunity to get paid for sex. For 'these' unskilled men to earn similar money, they have to risk their lives on the Bering straights.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Oh the equality!


But that's exactly what she said. I quoted it, so it must have been exactly what she said.

I immediately removed that bit about women living longer because I realised it was bullshit. It was part of a post I’d long before decided was bollox.

 

[Saul Goodman]

It might be the highest risk in terms of the job you do but you’re still safer than women just by being a man.

Statistically, is a crab fisherman on the Bering straights safer than a woman, in any job?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Statistically, is a crab fisherman on the Bering straights safer than a woman, in any job?

Yes

The women killed on one day around the world