Feminism - where are the threads?

[JudithB]

so what's the actual proposal to abolish sex work within wage labour? criminalising it obviously doesn't work. And I think prostitution is a grotesque aborration, but surely that necessitates organising against the pimps?

I dont have the answers. That's why I am interested in having a thread with intelligent women (and some men I suppose) to chew these ideas over.

The Nordic model criminalises men, the buyers of sexual services, rather than what happens mostly in the world wherein the provider, the woman (girl) is criminalised for providing those services. The reasoning is said to be that men use prostitutes because they can. If they are in fear of recrimination they may stop and thus supply and demand is diminished. The model also allows, in theory, for women to gain skills to remove them from the game

 

[JudithB]

Statistically, is a crab fisherman on the Bering straights safer than a woman, in any job?

This is a thread about feminism, not crab fisherman

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Statistically, is a crab fisherman on the Bering straights safer than a woman, in any job?

Oh, I beg your pardon....

In work, not in daily life?

I’m not sure. Slaving away in women’s work may be physically safer than the equivalent in men’s work, to be sure.

 

[Saul Goodman]

so what's the actual proposal to abolish sex work within wage labour? criminalising it obviously doesn't work. And I think prostitution is a grotesque aborration, but surely that necessitates organising against the pimps?

It necessitates decriminalising it. Like they did in Australia. Now the industry is a much safer place there.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

But there is whoring yourself and WHORING yourself

You working for the man is not the same as you taking the man's cock inside you

I mean I didn't say it was, I was just saying that, any proposals to abolish sex work under our current system will drive it underground or even legitimise it under histrionic moralist outrages. In Turkey for instance, prostitution is unspeakably taboo. We wouldn't be able to have this conversation outside without at best receiving suspicious looks and being told to leave the store, at worst getting a slap on the hand (or if known to be a political oppositionist, be arrested on trumped up charges.)

This doesn't mean there isn't a huge industry dedicated to this that everyone knows about.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yes

The women killed on one day around the world

You really don't want to go there, because then you'll have to research how many men die each and every year because of the job they HAVE to do.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

I dont have the answers. That's why I am interested in having a thread with intelligent women (and some men I suppose) to chew these ideas over.

The Nordic model criminalises men, the buyers of sexual services, rather than what happens mostly in the world wherein the provider, the woman (girl) is criminalised for providing those services. The reasoning is said to be that men use prostitutes because they can. If they are in fear of recrimination they may stop and thus supply and demand is diminished. The model also allows, in theory, for women to gain skills to remove them from the game

There are very easy ways for men (any competent criminal really) to avoid being caught under such a model.

 

[JudithB]

I mean I didn't say it was, I was just saying that, any proposals to abolish sex work under our current system will drive it underground or even legitimise it under histrionic moralist outrages. In Turkey for instance, prostitution is unspeakably taboo. We wouldn't be able to have this conversation outside without at best receiving suspicious looks and being told to leave the store, at worst getting a slap on the hand (or if known to be a political oppositionist, be arrested on trumped up charges.)

This doesn't mean there isn't a huge industry dedicated to this that everyone knows about.

Thanks for the clarification.

And in part, I agree. Women will put themselves at risk because of economic necessity and who are we especially as feminists to criticise?

 

[JudithB]

There are very easy ways for men (any competent criminal really) to avoid being caught under such a model.

All I am hearing is women put up with it. Men are going fuck so men are going to fuck.

Perhaps some women would like to comment, or is this thread on feminism becoming all about the menz? I do hope not.

For now I bid you guys goodnight

 

[ManchesterBeth]

All I am hearing is women put up with it. Men are going fuck so men are going to fuck.

Perhaps some women would like to comment, or is this thread on feminism becoming all about the menz? I do hope not.

For now I bid you guys goodnight

I'm not saying that? I'm saying without an in depth analysis of protection rackets people can't just be like Nordic model might be an option. It might be, but this requires probing.

 

[JudithB]

You really don't want to go there, because then you'll have to research how many men die each and every year because of the job they HAVE to do.

This thread is about feminism not crab fisherman

 

[Gromit]

all about the menz?

Now I know for sure you're a returner. Who were you?

 

[JudithB]

I'm not saying that? I'm saying without an in depth analysis of protection rackets people can't just be like Nordic model might be an option. It might be, but this requires probing.

I'll wait to hear from some women for now ok

 

[JudithB]

Now I know for sure you're a returner. Who were you?

eh?

 

[Saul Goodman]

All I am hearing is women put up with it. Men are going fuck so men are going to fuck.

Perhaps some women would like to comment, or is this thread on feminism becoming all about the menz? I do hope not.

For now I bid you guys goodnight

I thought feminism was about equality? I don't see anyone stopping women from posting, but it seems a couple are trying to stop men from posting.

Women will put themselves at risk because of economic necessity and who are we especially as feminists to criticise?

Men put themselves at risk, too. Not because they want to, but out of economic necessity. Do you think it's only women who are affected by austerity and capitalism?

 

[ManchesterBeth]

I'll wait to hear from some women for now ok

How do you know I'm a man? I mean, not that you're wrong, but you've read about 5 of my posts...

Definitely a returner.

 

[JudithB]

I thought feminism was about equality? I don't see anyone stopping women from posting, but it seems a couple are trying to stop men from posting.

Men put themselves at risk, too. Not because they want to, but out of economic necessity. Do you think it's only women who are affected by austerity and capitalism?

Yes, but this thread is particularly for women about women's issues. Sorry if it hurts your feelz

(Gromit I added a z!)

 

[JudithB]

How do you know I'm a man?

Did I misgender you?

 

[JudithB]

Goodnight boys

For realz

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Did I misgender you?

Now that would be telling wouldn't it!

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yes, but this thread is particularly for women about women's issues. Sorry if it hurts your feelz

Ah, so you're a sexist. Nice one

 

[belboid]

Goodnight boys

For realz

Do yourself a favour and put the idiot Saul on ignore. It makes the world a better place.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

was gonna say people still subtly imply my username is stupid (which it is) but naming yourself after judith butler, one of the most establishment academic intellectuals is definitely something a returner would do on urban.

 

[Gromit]

Yes

The women killed on one day around the world

If you are a female child murdered by a parent it's more likely that your mother killed you than your father.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Oh, I beg your pardon....

In work, not in daily life?

I’m not sure. Slaving away in women’s work may be physically safer than the equivalent in men’s work, to be sure.

There's no 'could be'. It is.
I'm not saying 'shut up and deal with it' I'm saying don't talk like men aren't in the same boat.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

oh christ gromit is pontificating i just saw. never mind im out of this thread even if it's firky gone transvestite.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Do yourself a favour and put the idiot Saul on ignore. It makes the world a better place.

Yet here you are, reading my posts

 

[SheilaNaGig]

If you are a female child murdered by a parent it's more likely that your mother killed you than your father.

Link please.

 

[Gromit]

Link please.

Filicide - Wikipedia

Google Filicide for some papers on it.

I think it's generally a suicide wanting to take the child they love most with them thing.

Father's statistically favour killing sons.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

If you are a female child murdered by a parent it's more likely that your mother killed you than your father.

I have no doubt, Gromit, that whatever you present here can be taken apart.