JudithB
Well-Known Member
Is this the Norway model?
Feminism - where are the threads?
- Thread starter JudithB
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Manter
Lunch Mob
criminalising buyers is the Nordic model
JudithB
Well-Known Member
Yes I am quite surprised to return to find the thread is mainly about sex work and fathers being wrongly treated.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
Sex work seems to be the topic the majority want to discuss now. The question from a feminist perspective would be is sex work always a form of sexual exploitation?
My argument would be that any system that provides women at a price for men's consumption becomes a market of exploitation for I do not believe without the consent provided by the provision of cash for the services of sex a woman would choose to perform sex work. Women being viewed as a commodity reinforces the inequality of the sexes and maintains that women are no more than "vending machines" for men's desires.
From the whistles and catcalls on the street, to the exchange of cash for sex, perhaps we could draw a straight line in society's thinking?
My argument would be that any system that provides women at a price for men's consumption becomes a market of exploitation for I do not believe without the consent provided by the provision of cash for the services of sex a woman would choose to perform sex work. Women being viewed as a commodity reinforces the inequality of the sexes and maintains that women are no more than "vending machines" for men's desires.
From the whistles and catcalls on the street, to the exchange of cash for sex, perhaps we could draw a straight line in society's thinking?
I don’t wanna discuss the sex work debate. I would (in due course if the discussion comes round to it) be interested in discussing how we move from the status quo to care work (“women’s work”) being valued.
(Btw mojo pixy I think your right to point out that men also suffer under the assumption by family courts that women remain primary carer after separation. But the other side of that coin weighs heavier, and that’s the side that says men have, and have always had, more freedom to walk away should they so choose).
(Btw mojo pixy I think your right to point out that men also suffer under the assumption by family courts that women remain primary carer after separation. But the other side of that coin weighs heavier, and that’s the side that says men have, and have always had, more freedom to walk away should they so choose).
JudithB
Well-Known Member
Then let's discuss!
My thoughts are that austerity has made an area that was already seen as a subjugated class of work much worse as the cuts in government services has increased the amount of social care that is still mainly undertaken by women - childcare, caring for elderly or disabled family members.
As Brexit - sorry to say the B word - probably means we will have even less government funding even if Labour are the government to take us out of Europe, is the solution to find a way to de-feminise care work?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I think once the robots have mopped up corporate law, management and finance, that could hopefully be a catalyst.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
In what way?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Because care work will be one of the last things to be automated.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
Great thought.
But with most of us infuriated by the scan yourself machines at the local supermarket and hating the automated services when trying to reach a utility company, we might have to find something a little sooner than robots. Also there is something around machines and racial profiling isn't there? That should be ironed out first before we hand everything over to our digital overlords.
What you say is correct in so much as care work could possibly be one of the last areas that will be automated.
To a lot of people, especially women, the opportunity to care for their infants long term, their elderly or disabled relatives is not an option. Before we find a solution perhaps we need to examine why?
But with most of us infuriated by the scan yourself machines at the local supermarket and hating the automated services when trying to reach a utility company, we might have to find something a little sooner than robots. Also there is something around machines and racial profiling isn't there? That should be ironed out first before we hand everything over to our digital overlords.
What you say is correct in so much as care work could possibly be one of the last areas that will be automated.
To a lot of people, especially women, the opportunity to care for their infants long term, their elderly or disabled relatives is not an option. Before we find a solution perhaps we need to examine why?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
There is something around training AI's using materials with a racial bias to them.
I think this is pretty interesting since the AI's have no "I shouldn't say that" rule built into them, so if you train them using materials with subtle racial biases and they filter out a lot of the noise, they really can become quite racist.
It could be a useful tool to help us check ourselves, if used right.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
??
ska invita
back on the other side
I've read some S Federici this year and a lot of her wages for housework writing sounds like a call for Universal (Basic) Income. In fact in a recent inttoduction she as good as called for that.
I'd love to hear what she has to say about UBI.
All these subjects deserve their own threads
JudithB
Well-Known Member
8ball
Decolonise colons!
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
They trialled it in Finland. People were happier and felt less stressed, but it didn't result in more people getting into work.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yes, was about to add that edit.
It appeared to fail in terms of getting jobless people into jobs.
It just succeeded in making them happy.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The Finnish trials are only just completed, they haven't really done much analysis of it yet. Tho I am very dubious about that trial as it seemed to be brought in by the right as a way of trying to cut welfare payments. No one trial will give you that much info, but once they are all aggregated they should say something interesting.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting read Women do four years more work than men in lifetime, report shows
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Define 'work'?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Too soon maybe?
It probably takes more than a year or so for folks to become bored of having enough leisure time to do laundry and read a book.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
This is very basic, but it discusses how existing biases in data can be mistaken for predictors, and ways of teasing things apart. There is loads of stuff out there that can be found with a simple keyword search.
AOC in the States has been bringing up the subject recently.
Is Artificial Intelligence Racist?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Did you look at the link?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Yes, was about to add that edit.
It appeared to fail in terms of getting jobless people into jobs.
It just succeeded in making them happy.
Because just being happy is a failure?
Is this in the context of endless growth?
Endless growth is cancer.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yes. To each one.
JudithB
Well-Known Member
And it negates the value of "women's work" it focusses on getting people back into "work". The study should include the social care of dependents undertaken by those in receipt of the payment
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