fascist infiltration of the left
- Thread starter zakawale
- Start date
Karac
Mae Hen Wlad Fy Mamau
Its a bit weird allowing a couple of fresh faced BNP students to become such leading players in the SWP in Manchester.
You dont have to grill the fuckers ,but there must have been some pointers?
When i was in the Militant in Camden we had all sorts joining up!
Heroin addicts and careerist wannabee councillors/MPs!
Dont know who was worst!
But never facists!
What the fuck did they say in meetings?
You dont have to grill the fuckers ,but there must have been some pointers?
When i was in the Militant in Camden we had all sorts joining up!
Heroin addicts and careerist wannabee councillors/MPs!
Dont know who was worst!
But never facists!
What the fuck did they say in meetings?
Karac
Mae Hen Wlad Fy Mamau
That only happened once that I can think of in the Socialist Party or Militant. Phil Hearse was one of the central leaders of the IMG or whatever they were calling themselves at that time. He jumped ship to join Militant and went straight into some relatively minor positions of responsibility. I think there would be a fairly strong consensus in the SP that recruiting him at all was a mistake. The ease with which he went back to his old politics rather implies that he never really concurred with ours.
He is now with the unspeakably dire Socialist Resistance, although technically he isn't back in the USFI. He has his own closely associated micro-organisation
Going to reply to this one because he was in my branch.
Not exactly a facist infiltrater but do you know task we gave him?
Paper organiser.
I think he fucked off soon but at least we didnt give him London responibilities.
He is now with the unspeakably dire Socialist Resistance, although technically he isn't back in the USFI. He has his own closely associated micro-organisation
Going to reply to this one because he was in my branch.
Not exactly a facist infiltrater but do you know task we gave him?
Paper organiser.
I think he fucked off soon but at least we didnt give him London responibilities.
Karac said:That only happened once that I can think of in the Socialist Party or Militant. Phil Hearse was one of the central leaders of the IMG or whatever they were calling themselves at that time. ......I think he fucked off soon but at least we didnt give him London responibilities.
?? I hardly think that compares to Fascist infiltration! You made the point earlier of the left groups hating each other. How stupid that makes us look. There are genuine points of disagreement but christ we are basically on the same side.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
naah, it was a response to a point CR made on post 463 about how quickly any new member might be given some responsibility in an organisation, not about being infiltrated, so its a quite fair coment.Groucho said:
(and the first half of karacs post was actually a quote from nigel)
urbanrevolt
New Member
"I do think it is important that an initial statement - giving a statement of the facts as they are currently known and announcing that a thorough investigation is underway - should be put out as soon as possible. That goes for MAR/RESPECT etc not just the SWP. I suspect that everyone involved in anti-fascist work for instance in the North West of England is currently more than a bit worried and the SWP etc have a responsibility to left them know what is going on quickly. "
I think that Nigel Irritable's statement is a very good one. The SWP should produce a statement on it, as should MAR and the UAF nationally. After all, people's security has been threatened. Covering it up would be unprincipled. This is an attack on all antiracists in the North West and we should launch a campaign in solidarity with the students and workers of the universities to get Finnon and Stoker expelled for:
passing on of information that compromises students' and workers' safety;
contravening antiracist policies;
encouraging racist hate crime;
The workers at Asda, Finnon's workplace, were shocked by the presence of a BNP activist in their workplace and demanded more leaflets.
I think that Nigel Irritable's statement is a very good one. The SWP should produce a statement on it, as should MAR and the UAF nationally. After all, people's security has been threatened. Covering it up would be unprincipled. This is an attack on all antiracists in the North West and we should launch a campaign in solidarity with the students and workers of the universities to get Finnon and Stoker expelled for:
passing on of information that compromises students' and workers' safety;
contravening antiracist policies;
encouraging racist hate crime;
The workers at Asda, Finnon's workplace, were shocked by the presence of a BNP activist in their workplace and demanded more leaflets.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Morning Star article
BNP moles infiltrate left parties
(Thursday 19 August 2004)
Louise Nousratpour
MANCHESTER peace and anti-racism campaigners branded the recent infiltration of
the left in the city by the racist BNP as a "desperate idiotic stunt" yesterday.
The Manchester branches of the Respect coalition, Unite Against Fascism and the
Socialist Workers Party discovered that two of their activists - students Joe
Finnon and Diane Stoker - are really far-right moles.
They warned people who had campaigned alongside these infiltrators to be
vigilant about security, as the racist party has a long record of violence and
thuggery.
However, campaigners said that they are not worried about any vital or
confidential information being leaked by Mr Finnon and Ms Stoker "because our
activities are public knowledge."
The groups noted that the infiltration was a desperate ploy by a defeated
fascist group which has lost out to the left in the north-west.
Respect national secretary John Rees said that he regretted the incident, but
pointed out that, ironically, the infiltrators did "more to help than stop us
from fighting fascism."
He added: "We got more work out of them than anything else. They even actively
helped us organise the protest against Le Pen."
The BNP issued a triumphalist statement on its website, crowing about its two
members' "achievements."
But, as Mr Rees put it: "It was hardly News of the World. A good cure for
insomnia though."
UAF joint secretary Weyman Bennett highlighted that the anti-fascism campaign in
the north-west had been the key reason for BNP leader Nick Griffin's defeat as a
European candidate in the June 10 elections.
He said: "The BNP thought that June 10 would be their day, but it was far from
that as the fascists failed miserably. Now they are licking their wounds by
infiltrating and attacking our campaign."
"Such idiotic stunts will not stop us from continuing our effective campaign
against racism and fascism," Mr Bennett urged.
"Every person in this country needs to be vigilant about the BNP because these
fascists attack ordinary black people on the street, never mind anti-racist
campaigners.
"We need to campaign wholeheartedly to root out racism and the BNP if we want to
sleep soundly at night," he added.
BNP moles infiltrate left parties
(Thursday 19 August 2004)
Louise Nousratpour
MANCHESTER peace and anti-racism campaigners branded the recent infiltration of
the left in the city by the racist BNP as a "desperate idiotic stunt" yesterday.
The Manchester branches of the Respect coalition, Unite Against Fascism and the
Socialist Workers Party discovered that two of their activists - students Joe
Finnon and Diane Stoker - are really far-right moles.
They warned people who had campaigned alongside these infiltrators to be
vigilant about security, as the racist party has a long record of violence and
thuggery.
However, campaigners said that they are not worried about any vital or
confidential information being leaked by Mr Finnon and Ms Stoker "because our
activities are public knowledge."
The groups noted that the infiltration was a desperate ploy by a defeated
fascist group which has lost out to the left in the north-west.
Respect national secretary John Rees said that he regretted the incident, but
pointed out that, ironically, the infiltrators did "more to help than stop us
from fighting fascism."
He added: "We got more work out of them than anything else. They even actively
helped us organise the protest against Le Pen."
The BNP issued a triumphalist statement on its website, crowing about its two
members' "achievements."
But, as Mr Rees put it: "It was hardly News of the World. A good cure for
insomnia though."
UAF joint secretary Weyman Bennett highlighted that the anti-fascism campaign in
the north-west had been the key reason for BNP leader Nick Griffin's defeat as a
European candidate in the June 10 elections.
He said: "The BNP thought that June 10 would be their day, but it was far from
that as the fascists failed miserably. Now they are licking their wounds by
infiltrating and attacking our campaign."
"Such idiotic stunts will not stop us from continuing our effective campaign
against racism and fascism," Mr Bennett urged.
"Every person in this country needs to be vigilant about the BNP because these
fascists attack ordinary black people on the street, never mind anti-racist
campaigners.
"We need to campaign wholeheartedly to root out racism and the BNP if we want to
sleep soundly at night," he added.
smashthestate
wage slave
looks like john rees is burying his head in the sand if those quotes are a fair representation of what he told the morning star.
Karac said:
I contacted someone today in the UAF by phone who knew Stoker. He's either totally fooled, or doesn't believe that Stoker is really BNP. So yep goint by what he's said Stoker has either done a bloody good job or is not actually Fash....either way, it looks like she would have been near impossible to rumble.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Not a word about an inquiry, which I hope is an oversight. The following bit, however does not fill me with confidence that legitimate worries which anti-racist activists may have about these events are being taken seriously:
The activities of the SWP etc may be public knowledge, but I would be appalled if personal details of members, supporters and contacts are. The possibility of things like addresses falling into the hands of the BNP should be the main concern here. If RESPECT/UAF/SWP are sure that these details have not been passed along they should say so. If they are not sure then the complacency of this quote is foolish in the extreme.
Griffin failed to get a seat in the European election, something we can all be relieved about. The BNP polled a huge number of votes in the area and has a number of councillors there. Who on earth seriously thinks that they "lost out to the left"? How many votes did RESPECT get in the region again?
Some of the language used in the article seems to imply that RESPECT etc have made a public statement on these events. Does anyone know where such a thing can be found if it exists?
Morning Star said:
The activities of the SWP etc may be public knowledge, but I would be appalled if personal details of members, supporters and contacts are. The possibility of things like addresses falling into the hands of the BNP should be the main concern here. If RESPECT/UAF/SWP are sure that these details have not been passed along they should say so. If they are not sure then the complacency of this quote is foolish in the extreme.
Morning Star said:
Griffin failed to get a seat in the European election, something we can all be relieved about. The BNP polled a huge number of votes in the area and has a number of councillors there. Who on earth seriously thinks that they "lost out to the left"? How many votes did RESPECT get in the region again?
Some of the language used in the article seems to imply that RESPECT etc have made a public statement on these events. Does anyone know where such a thing can be found if it exists?
smashthestate
wage slave
i think it was a bit more than that, tbh.Nigel Irritable said:
*discovered* - hmm......well, thats one way of putting it i suppose.
they're not worried???? dear god, who the fuck came out with that?
I very much doubt it was anyone who knew / worked with and was friends with these two nazis for the best part of a year!
more evidence of their delusion....
yeah, right
oh, so its alright then....
interesting, that protest against le pen was actually a big success - looks like the moles fucked up there, if they really were invovled in "organising" - AFAIK it wasn't even the SWP who organised it.
eh? yes, i rested much easier in my bed the night after reading this unfold
er, actually they infiltrated months before the elections, another case of swp delusion and denial...
smashthestate
wage slave
Yes, flimsier, I am convincedflimsier said:
I was in the SWP for half the length of time of those two
and had access to all kinds of info on member of SWP, SWSS, GR and ANL - even tho i was never even a member of the ANL.I was not even in a position of any resposibilty whatsoever.
They will obviously have taken / copied down info.
And of course I can't check, since I thankfully don't know Diane and Joe I can't ask them (as if they would admit it ffs!)
Just to add, I will respond to you Layabout, but I've been very busy wasting my life working but as soon as I have a bit of time you'll have a response.
No, but as said, the SWP will know what they had access to.
I believe it to be a lot less than suggested here.
The ridiculous nature of criticisms of the SWP was that the minute I suggested I'd been told something I was told 'not to trust' anything the Manc SWP said - because they'd been infiltrated.
Well for fuck's sake.
The nazis are laughing, by the way, and claiming the reaction of the (non-SWP) members on here is exactly the reaction they wanted. I'd link, but it's not hard to find and would be careless to do so...
I believe it to be a lot less than suggested here.
The ridiculous nature of criticisms of the SWP was that the minute I suggested I'd been told something I was told 'not to trust' anything the Manc SWP said - because they'd been infiltrated.
Well for fuck's sake.
The nazis are laughing, by the way, and claiming the reaction of the (non-SWP) members on here is exactly the reaction they wanted. I'd link, but it's not hard to find and would be careless to do so...
smashthestate
wage slave
well, arguably... and i bet manc ppl who knew joe and diane are more concerned than john rees.flimsier said:
why?
i never said that
well, i can't find it, can you PM it or post a broken link or something?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
flimsier said:
Not so long ago you were correctly pointing out that the SWP had only just found out about the infiltration and that it would take time for them to reasonably assess the damage.
Do you think that in this brief time the SWP looked back through every task these two were assigned for the SWP, SWSS, Respect, UAF or other body and found out for sure that they never had access to lists of members/supporters/contacts?
If so why don't they say so clearly and ease people's worries?
If not do you not think that the statement about not worrying because "our activities are public" is complacent to say the least?
TBH this is getting a tad boring this thread.
As an active swp member whos all over redwatch, yes redwatch, before the sprites photographed the manc demo of love music hate racism, its gauling to see alot of ifs and buts speculation as to what information will come out about whom, ffs..
If it does it will!
Infiltration will and the last days have shown, does happen, on both sides...
FFS, us people here in leeds have been firebombed by the WNP etc and got our addresses all over the redwatch site. If we gave in dont you think that capital is the winner? Its not cos we understsand the shit we live in and the friction of class politics that produce scummy fuckwits like them two.
WE are fighting now and to bow to some of the wet bollix of having a policy on this or that about membership would slow down the forward movement of the party and therefore the class, do you think we'd hold our head up high at work and say NO to the Boss worried if we were to be attacked at home all the time and who was being vetted?
No, the best thing is to move on and take the consequences as they come and they are going to be soft consequences when our side has the support of bus, fire, flight, council, social workers on the frontline. Anyone hear of a nazi supporting a striking worker?
Get real people this is politics
its a fuckin war and today i'm a slave to my wage
sort out your heads...
FFS
see beyond the monitor and your political rigidity....
as you were
As an active swp member whos all over redwatch, yes redwatch, before the sprites photographed the manc demo of love music hate racism, its gauling to see alot of ifs and buts speculation as to what information will come out about whom, ffs..
If it does it will!
Infiltration will and the last days have shown, does happen, on both sides...
FFS, us people here in leeds have been firebombed by the WNP etc and got our addresses all over the redwatch site. If we gave in dont you think that capital is the winner? Its not cos we understsand the shit we live in and the friction of class politics that produce scummy fuckwits like them two.
WE are fighting now and to bow to some of the wet bollix of having a policy on this or that about membership would slow down the forward movement of the party and therefore the class, do you think we'd hold our head up high at work and say NO to the Boss worried if we were to be attacked at home all the time and who was being vetted?
No, the best thing is to move on and take the consequences as they come and they are going to be soft consequences when our side has the support of bus, fire, flight, council, social workers on the frontline. Anyone hear of a nazi supporting a striking worker?
Get real people this is politics
its a fuckin war and today i'm a slave to my wage
sort out your heads...
FFS
see beyond the monitor and your political rigidity....
as you were
smashthestate
wage slave
Gumbert said:
why are you still reading it then?
icepick said:
Remembering the SWSS at university I would think that the socially unacceptable would be best off with them.
It was always the angry 4 eyed fat girls or the terminally plain who joined the SWP and hung out with spotty blokes sporting tassels (it was the eighties!) they would sit in the corner and laugh at each others weak jokes (rather like the other misfits the 'Christian forum') and make pathetic attempts to get the rugger boys (always the best looking ) banned from the union bar.
Karac said:
If the BNP (or whoever) had succesfully infiltrated Militant how would you necessarily know? If an infiltrator had left after, say, a year it would be a mistake to automatically assume that their organisation would necessarily go public on this. There are other ways of doing things.
Barry B
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
exactly! and this is the problem; The BNP have - thanks to the stupidity and naivete of Manchester swappies - blown the trot camp in the NW right open. if 2 zit-faced stoods could do this, what else has gone on? what names do they have? what actions can they f-up? Manchester SWP have dropped us all right in it.BarryB said:
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