dilute micro
esse quam videri
As much as the good folks of Urban show an undying interest in all things American most aren't American.
How about some music while you think about it?
Far Right win 30% in Austrian Election
- Thread starter Fisher_Gate
- Start date
As much as the good folks of Urban show an undying interest in all things American most aren't American.
How about some music while you think about it?
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
What I dont get though is that Austria has always struck me as being culturally and historically very similar to south Germany, and whilst south Germany isnt exactly the most liberal of places, the successes of a similar far right party in Germany are unthinkable. (And before anyone syas so it was still unthinkable before they had a left alternative in 'die linke')
Same nazi history
Same grand coalitions
Same voting system that helps small partys
Same conservative undercurrent in the culture
More immigration into Germany and yet in Germany.....nothing. (relatively speaking)
lobster
Well-Known Member
I personally don't think far right in Europe can get anyway today.
Even if they were in power they be heavily watched , sanctioned to the point where people would vote them out.
This goes to show that even though the Italian government is awful , there is a limit to how far they can go.
Also like the BNP here, many that vote for them don;t held their views entirely.
The left is very much to blame for this though, we need to get together and start with a platform that anybody can relate too..
Even if they were in power they be heavily watched , sanctioned to the point where people would vote them out.
This goes to show that even though the Italian government is awful , there is a limit to how far they can go.
Also like the BNP here, many that vote for them don;t held their views entirely.
The left is very much to blame for this though, we need to get together and start with a platform that anybody can relate too..
I put it down to the fact that Austria was given 'victim' status at the end of WW2 as opposed to being considered guilty along with Germany.
Most Germans I know still carry a real and abiding sense of shame about what happened during the Nazi era and I think that has led to a collective sense of rejection of the far-right ever since although I understand that things are slightly different in the East
But in Austria, well there seems to far less of this.
What I found interesting about this result though was the amount of young people who voted for the two far right parties. If you want something to be really concerned about then that is it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Agreed.
You do actually get a similar (though less intense) vibe from some Ossis as you do from Austrians, the whole "National Socialism had nothing to do with us" schtick allied to the fact that neither of them accepted it (or had to accept it) as more than a political aberration.
Agreed. IMO it's a least partly an interesting commentary on how a generation or two brought up within a consumer culture, and with a massive sense of entitlement might be more inclined to fall rightward than leftward. Perhaps something to do with wanting to preserve ones' own perquisites rather than to act altruistically?
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
The "Sound of Music" wrongly depicted most 'patriotic' Austrians as being anti-nazi. In fact the majority were more enthusiastic Nazis than a lot of Germans.
The failure to confront this part of their history has meant a lack of understanding about the depths to which they sank during that period and hence a new generation lacks the understanding of the Nazis of other nations elsewhere in Europe.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Though the de-nazification of the DDR was considerably more thorough than it was in the west. The Russians made sure of that.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The problem being that while they scoured the bureaucracy of Nazis and fellow-travellers, there was no coherent programme to combat the sort of cultural and racial assumptions that Nazism sprang from, except through reference to it being inimical to the interests of the proletariat.
Which is why, as many British anti-fascists who were keeping an eye on central Europe at the time the wall came down feared, a hard right appeared in Ossi-land in fairly short order, not helped by the fact that Kohl was happy to gloss over the problem.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Sponsored by the far right in West Germany, I'd hasten to add. It was wessiegeld that sponsored all these new Volksparteis that sprang up when the wall came down. I knew several Africans who'd lived in the DDR for many years before the wall came down and never had any problems. Only after 1990 did things start to get worse. I'm not saying that some ossies weren't predisposed to this but I think a lot of it came over from the west.
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
Maybe those who had supported the NDPD or Nationalist Party, which was a sister party of SED, and part of East Germany's ruling National Front Government, and specifically set up to get ex-NSDAP support behind the regime.
It had over a hundred thousand members at it's peak, and that was before reunification.
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
Agree with this, which is also part of the problem in east Germany, though I'd hasten to add the economic problems alone in the east could account for the far right there, Austria has no such excuse.
Having said that there is a different history in the east which supports what you say about Austrian victim status. In the west people were taught to feel guilty, in the east this wasnt the case. The state saw itself as being born out of antifascism and carrying on that tradition (hence 'antifascist protection wall', instead of 'berlin wall') and so did not need to feel guilty about the nazi past because they had been those most active in fighting fascism and had suffered the most under fascism. In some cases this was true, and concentration camp inmates were held up as heroes.
Problem is when the GDR collapsed all it left was a nation of people that didnt feel guilty about the holocaust and had no love of antifascism as by 1990 it was just a bureaucratic buzzword.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There's a decent book by some east german fascist, whose name i forget (sorry will find it) which argued that the anti-fascist nature of the east german state chanelled any dissenting opinion into far-right channels.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
heres a suggestion .perhapas teh left could organise a mass trip to Aausttia and tour working class areas and call the locals Racist. They don't really have any tactics and though this tactic has actually enocuraged the BNP in the Uk its fun for the left to feel usefull so why not do it anyway ?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
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poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Fair point.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
It is the left in Austria that has fallen, well the centre-left specifically.
This is reflected throughout Europe, with demoralisation and confusion amongst hapless leaders, who are incapable of addressing concerns about immigration, or to deal with the turmoil resulting from 'free markets' and globalised economics.
gawkrodger
Well-Known Member
Seems like a suitable time to bump this, as a fascist head of state is appearing to be a real possibility
Austrian far-right party wins first round of presidential election
Paul Mason with an interesting article about it
The far right is weaselling into the mainstream, dressed up in suits | Paul Mason
Austrian far-right party wins first round of presidential election
Paul Mason with an interesting article about it
The far right is weaselling into the mainstream, dressed up in suits | Paul Mason
Last edited:
I read that article, the first half is interesting and factual, the second half is Bat shit crazy conspiracy theory. Thumbs down.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What exactly constitutes the 'Bat shit crazy conspiracy theory'?
The "Putin is behind it all" non-sense.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It doesn't say any such thing though. It says that the putin led russian state shares tactical and strategic interests with these far right groups and some of them have received a warm welcome in ruusia - including an amount of funding. Which is true. It doesn't put the growth of these parties or the rise in centrality of the issues they organise around down to putin at all. In fact, it spends the main part of the article outlining just what it is that's leading to their growth and doesn't mention putin or russia in that list at all.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's him ta - not a very good book, an even worse film.
(I should have said formally anti-fascist above btw)
(I should have said formally anti-fascist above btw)
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
GMT? Wtf?Presidential election today. Polls close 3pm GMT. Preliminary statement 5pm GMT. Postal ballots not counted until tomorrow.
Bookies have as close but Hofer winning
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You don't know what GMT is, do you?Presidential election today. Polls close 3pm GMT. Preliminary statement 5pm GMT. Postal ballots not counted until tomorrow.
Bookies have as close but Hofer winning
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