Exit impact on Northern Ireland

[Nigel Irritable]

I cant picture what you mean.
Someone from the EU getting in to Ireland is a wave through, but they can then just jump on a ferry to anglesey undetected

This really isn’t an issue - there’s passport control between Ireland and the Continental EU and it’s almost certain that a Brexited Britain would enter into a visa free travel (as opposed to residency and employment) arrangement with the EU like every other rich country. The core dispute about “free movement” isn’t movement but residency and employment and that’s something that doesn’t have to be dealt with at the point of entry.

The customs union fudge is a lot trickier.

 

[Raheem]

I cant picture what you mean.
Someone from the EU getting in to Ireland is a wave through, but they can then just jump on a ferry to anglesey undetected

If you make a decision that you need to detect EU citizens entering the country, then that might make things difficult. But it's not a necessary part of Brexit. Here is what you could do, for example:

1) Allow Irish citizens the same right of free movement to the UK as they have now;
2) Allow EU citizens visa-free travel for tourism purposes;
3) Either:

a) Have an agreement with Ireland such that anyone who legally enters Ireland is also allowed to legally enter the UK (but not to work, reside, study etc); or
b) Accept that you will have to deal with a manageable problem of people entering into the country illegally, which is simply part of the price to be paid.​

 

[ska invita]

If you make a decision that you need to detect EU citizens entering the country, then that might make things difficult. But it's not a necessary part of Brexit. Here is what you could do, for example:

1) Allow Irish citizens the same right of free movement to the UK as they have now;
2) Allow EU citizens visa-free travel for tourism purposes;
3) Either:

a) Have an agreement with Ireland such that anyone who legally enters Ireland is also allowed to legally enter the UK (but not to work, reside, study etc); or
b) Accept that you will have to deal with a manageable problem of people entering into the country illegally, which is simply part of the price to be paid.​

cant see any realistic version that doesnt include some degree of 3b, and I wonder who cares about that. i dont of course, but will the EU? Will the UK government of the day? Whatever, we'll find out soon enough

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Who exactly is it that you expect to get to the UK illegally via Ireland? EU citizens will have visa free entry directly to the UK anyway. Ireland’s border controls are every bit as racist towards brown people who aren’t EU citizens as Britain’s ones.

 

[ska invita]

ah ok, i can picture it now

 

[8115]

Goods will be the main problem, no?

Presumably that's why they keep talking about a customs union.

 

[Raheem]

Who exactly is it that you expect to get to the UK illegally via Ireland? EU citizens will have visa free entry directly to the UK anyway. Ireland’s border controls are every bit as racist towards brown people who aren’t EU citizens as Britain’s ones.

The default would be that anyone in ROI on a visa, plus asylum seekers and people with leave to remain, who crosses the border for any reason would be doing so illegally. But you could conceivably have an UK-ROI agreement that says it's actually OK for them to do that, and then you don't have a problem.

 

[8115]

Also this technological solution still seems to be a synonym for "magic".

 

[krtek a houby]

Boris has the answer.
Boris shares his inspired solution to the Irish border question | John Crace
The twat.

 

[likesfish]

There is not an insignificant amount of people in the uk who actually think Ireland is part of the uk and don’t really understand the difference between north and souther Ireland .

Which is quite amusing when prods find out there “paddy” in England

But but your irish

 

[krtek a houby]

There is not an insignificant amount of people in the uk who actually think Ireland is part of the uk and don’t really understand the difference between north and souther Ireland .

Which is quite amusing when prods find out there “paddy” in England

But but your irish

Wait until you tell them that there's protestants in the Republic. Meltdown ahoy!

 

[butchersapron]

Is this spout an ignorant prejudice day on here or something?

 

[Pickman's model]

Who exactly is it that you expect to get to the UK illegally via Ireland? EU citizens will have visa free entry directly to the UK anyway. Ireland’s border controls are every bit as racist towards brown people who aren’t EU citizens as Britain’s ones.

britain's ones are quite racist towards brown people who are eu citizens, as i saw when coming back from dublin some years ago, when the only person on a coach almost entirely full of anarchists searched at uk customs was the one black man, a respectable civil servant who'd been on holiday in ireland.

 

[MickiQ]

If the UK is outside the customs union but there is free movement of goods and services into and out of the EU from the UK then it becomes feasible for American or Chinese goods which don't meet EU standards being imported into Britain and then onwards into the EU so border checks are needed to stop that.
What Boris doesn't get because he is a fucking idiot is that the problem isn't goods coming from the Ireland into the UK but goods going the other way round, if there is an open border then there is a gaping hole in the EU's border checks.
I can't imagine that the actual rights of Irish citizens to enter or leave the UK will change but if there is a border check looking for goods then it is going to stop people even if all it does is look at their passports and wave them through, it will affect people's perceptions more than it will affect them in reality and perceptions count for a lot.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I was just ruminating on shit foreign secretaries

Johnson is an absolute pig headed spoilt fool but has yet to trigger or drag us unwittingly into a bloody conflict. I am sure he is working on his place on history but he has stiff competition.

 

[likesfish]

Is this spout an ignorant prejudice day on here or something?

well England and Ireland boneheaded stupidity was bound to rear its head at some point

 

[Streathamite]

in fact, on Ireland there seem to me to be only 3 real alternatives - a hard border brought back (neither Dublin nor the EU will accept that), reunification of Ireland (every Unionist in NI would go apes hit, and we probably have another war) - or CU & SM for the UK.
Which is why the Tories are desperately trying to magic up an option 4,but there isn't one.
(hence Boris's latest outpouring of spectacular, olympian bollocks, whereby Euston Road became directly analogous with the Falls Road

 

[Kaka Tim]

what happens to people who live and work on both sides of the border? which is a lot of people. Someone like a joiner or trainer will be working all over the island - will they have to get visas and/or fill in forms every time they travel back and forth between belfast and dundalk?
Its this sort of shit that will be bitterly resented.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Israel seem to be able to handle the daily movement of workers to and fro from Palestine with no problems or stress. Lol ( not lol)

 

[Dogsauce]

If the UK is outside the customs union but there is free movement of goods and services into and out of the EU from the UK then it becomes feasible for American or Chinese goods which don't meet EU standards being imported into Britain and then onwards into the EU so border checks are needed to stop that.
What Boris doesn't get because he is a fucking idiot is that the problem isn't goods coming from the Ireland into the UK but goods going the other way round, if there is an open border then there is a gaping hole in the EU's border checks.
(...)

In reality there are loads of those uncertified and unsafe goods coming in all the time via direct purchases (eBay etc) and stuff going direct to retailers both here and on the continent (if anything it's worse on the continent). I'm not sure it'll have much impact on the availability of exploding phone chargers whatever way it's done.

 

[Raheem]

In reality there are loads of those uncertified and unsafe goods coming in all the time via direct purchases (eBay etc) and stuff going direct to retailers both here and on the continent (if anything it's worse on the continent). I'm not sure it'll have much impact on the availability of exploding phone chargers whatever way it's done.

This is possibly a fair point, although there is the matter of scale to consider. The problem, though, is not so much the exploding phone chargers as the Irish border.

 

[SpookyFrank]

in fact, on Ireland there seem to me to be only 3 real alternatives - a hard border brought back (neither Dublin nor the EU will accept that), reunification of Ireland (every Unionist in NI would go apes hit, and we probably have another war) - or CU & SM for the UK.
Which is why the Tories are desperately trying to magic up an option 4,but there isn't one.
(hence Boris's latest outpouring of spectacular, olympian bollocks, whereby Euston Road became directly analogous with the Falls Road

I am enjoying all the prevarication and bluster from the tories on this. They agreed to something vague back in December, then the EU wrote it down and sent it back to them and now they're saying they would never agree to such a thing. They're not of course saying what their solution is, because they don't have one.

I look forward to seeing how long they can drag this out for without actually telling anyone how they plan to get around EU law, the GFA or both and how they plan to sell that plan to their spittle-flecked chums at the DUP.

 

[Smangus]

The Tories are fucked ,it's great.

 

[MickiQ]

I am enjoying all the prevarication and bluster from the tories on this. They agreed to something vague back in December, then the EU wrote it down and sent it back to them and now they're saying they would never agree to such a thing. They're not of course saying what their solution is, because they don't have one.

I look forward to seeing how long they can drag this out for without actually telling anyone how they plan to get around EU law, the GFA or both and how they plan to sell that plan to their spittle-flecked chums at the DUP.

All this bollocks started because Cameron wanted to unite his backbenchers there is a certain karma in watching it rip them to shreds

 

[not-bono-ever]

yes but down the line, we will invariably pay for their career choices. Tory career politicos and cockroaches survive most things

 

[Idris2002]

I was just ruminating on shit foreign secretaries

Johnson is an absolute pig headed spoilt fool but has yet to trigger or drag us unwittingly into a bloody conflict. I am sure he is working on his place on history but he has stiff competition.

"yet"

 

[Pickman's model]

in fact, on Ireland there seem to me to be only 3 real alternatives - a hard border brought back (neither Dublin nor the EU will accept that), reunification of Ireland (every Unionist in NI would go apes hit, and we probably have another war) - or CU & SM for the UK.
Which is why the Tories are desperately trying to magic up an option 4,but there isn't one.
(hence Boris's latest outpouring of spectacular, olympian bollocks, whereby Euston Road became directly analogous with the Falls Road

everyone hates him on the euston road too

 

[Streathamite]

everyone hates him on the euston road too

true!

 

[ska invita]

interesting

talk of a vote on unification in 2022?
piece suggests a significant changing positive mood towards a united ireland, especially if its a hard brexit

 

[Gerry1time]

interesting

talk of a vote on unification in 2022?
piece suggests a significant changing positive mood towards a united ireland, especially if its a hard brexit

Would love to see Jeremy Corbyn asking the PM if they'll still call themselves the Conservative and Unionist Party after their actions force the end of the union.