Exit impact on Northern Ireland

[butchersapron]

This is an interesting read (thanks paul):



The ex-IRA men: ‘United Ireland? It’s all guff’

Brexit will not lead to a return to bloodshed in Northern Ireland, says one Provisional IRA veteran. Talk of a united Ireland is all guff, according to another. A third former republican paramilitary suggests that Ireland would be better off in an economic bloc with the UK rather than with the European Union.

These are among the surprising views expressed by a number of former hard men of republicanism, interviewed by The Irish Times for their unique insights into the thorny issues of Brexit and Northern Ireland’s future.

Three of the four are convicted killers or have served time in relation to a killing. The fourth was imprisoned for offences that included attempted murder. They were active in some of the bloodiest campaigns of the Troubles, and for three of them much of that activity took place along the Border.

Lynagh refers to the high proportion of social-welfare recipients in Monaghan, the county’s “low-wage and no-wage economy” and his work distributing charity food to families. He goes so far as to propose an Irish exit from the EU, given the way that Brussels and the European Central Bank, in Frankfurt, landed Irish people with austerity and a hefty bill from the bank bailouts.

He recalls the “EEC No” signs that accompanied “Brits Out” graffiti around Monaghan when he was growing, up in the 1970s. Euroscepticism had a long history in the area, he says, before Ireland went into the EU.

The lifelong Irish republican even suggests that it could as easily be argued that breaking from the European Union and joining forces with the UK would make better economic sense for the country.

The European Union is as much of an imperial power as – if not more than – Britain at the moment,” Lynagh says. “We are faced with the possibility of two foreign powers implementing the partition of Ireland, and where is the demand in Ireland to say, ‘What gives you the power to do this?’ ”

McKearney adds, “It is economic imperialism we are dealing with, as opposed to the imperialism that was so raw and so in our face under British imperialism. This is the infrastructure that the European Union has created, and concentrating on a customs post in Aughnacloy is taking us off the core argument

 

[Ax^]

the irish times a fair and balanced paper

you may as well believe the mail

 

[butchersapron]

What do you mean believe? You think the quotes are invented?

 

[stethoscope]

the irish times a fair and balanced paper

you may as well believe the mail

I don't believe Butchers made any reference to it being 'a fair and balanced paper'. It's content is an interesting read though, perhaps for someone like you who has mostly posted lazy two liner shit all the way through the EU ref threads.

 

[Red Cat]

I thought it was interesting too.

 

[Ax^]

I don't believe Butchers made any reference to it being 'a fair and balanced paper'. It's content is an interesting read though, perhaps for someone like you who has mostly posted lazy two liner shit all the way through the EU ref threads.

cross thread beef nice

it may as well be a British paper so alright it may be an interesting read ...

but would i take it with a pinch of salt...

and can be lazy about the EU Ref regardless of the result my country was not leaving the EU

 

[ska invita]

Can someone help explain to me what is happening/implications here?
Northern Ireland will stay in single market after Brexit, EU says

Is this just a bit of hardball from the EU negotiators?

 

[Pickman's model]

Can someone help explain to me what is happening/implications here?
Northern Ireland will stay in single market after Brexit, EU says

Is this just a bit of hardball from the EU negotiators?

they don't need to play hardball when they hold all the cards and her majesty's government haven't a fucking clue what they're up to.

 

[ska invita]

they don't need to play hardball when they hold all the cards and her majesty's government haven't a fucking clue what they're up to.

doesnt it contradict that long drawn out agreement they pretended to reach in December? The one David Davis masterfully did an interview the next day and said its not worth the paper its written on?
Im finding it hard to keep up

 

[Rosemary Jest]

doesnt it contradict that long drawn out agreement they pretended to reach in December? The one David Davis masterfully did an interview the next day and said its not worth the paper its written on?
Im finding it hard to keep up

See the post above, the government haven't got a clue.

 

[Winot]

doesnt it contradict that long drawn out agreement they pretended to reach in December? The one David Davis masterfully did an interview the next day and said its not worth the paper its written on?
Im finding it hard to keep up

The Phase 1 agreement in December basically kicked the NI problem into the (not very) long grass. It effectively said ‘we are going to collectively aim to achieve [something that’s not practically possible]”.

It’s not possible to have no hard border between NI and Eire if Eire is in the Customs Union / Single Market and NI isn’t.

No Brexiteers have a practical solution to this that I have seen.

Barnier is only stating the obvious.

 

[marty21]

The Phase 1 agreement in December basically kicked the NI problem into the (not very) long grass. It effectively said ‘we are going to collectively aim to achieve [something that’s not practically possible]”.

It’s not possible to have no hard border between NI and Eire if Eire is in the Customs Union / Single Market and NI isn’t.

No Brexiteers have a practical solution to this that I have seen.

Barnier is only stating the obvious.

A United Ireland seems a practical solution - no border issues then

 

[ska invita]

A United Ireland seems a practical solution - no border issues then

all these tiny steps and statements aside i think the long term effect of brexit (say 20 years down the line) will be a united ireland. possibly. obviously a lot of water to flow under a lot of bridges before then, but its opened up the possibility in a way that wasnt there before

 

[marty21]

all these tiny steps and statements aside i think the long term effect of brexit (say 20 years down the line) will be a united ireland. possibly. obviously a lot of water to flow under a lot of bridges before then, but its opened up the possibility in a way that wasnt there before

an unexpected benefit of brexit

 

[ska invita]

an unexpected benefit of brexit

well yes, though the fact its unexpected and that no English politicians gave one thought to Northern Ireland ahead of the referendum says everything about the nature of The Union.

 

[Winot]

A United Ireland seems a practical solution - no border issues then

I'm sure that'll go down a storm with May's political partners

 

[ska invita]

I'm sure that'll go down a storm with May's political partners

If this Northern Ireland will stay in single market after Brexit, EU says thing has any weight we'll be hearing from them very shortly i expect

( cant tell if it has weight or not)

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm sure that'll go down a storm with May's political partners

Would be bloody marvellous if the DUP's choice to prop up May ended up causing an Irish reunification.

 

[Teaboy]

Would be bloody marvellous if the DUP's choice to prop up May ended up causing an Irish reunification.

I dunno it's not without risk. How many would die laughing?

 

[likesfish]

Considering the calibre and talent of the brexit team we might wake up to discover the the British isles is reunited and now ruled from Dublin

 

[likesfish]

well yes, though the fact its unexpected and that no English politicians gave one thought to Northern Ireland ahead of the referendum says everything about the nature of The Union.

tbf they hardly gave a thought when the place was in flames and troops were on the ground

 

[flypanam]

True but they were quite supportive when the troops were killing civilians at checkpoints, as an example Aidan McAnespie 30 years ago this weekend.

 

[Celyn]

Well, the British Army of occupation is not really very popular, is it?
I look forward with great joy to when "Great Britain" has to deal with important stuff.

 

[likesfish]

True but they were quite supportive when the troops were killing civilians at checkpoints, as an example Aidan McAnespie 30 years ago this weekend.

that was a fuckwitted accident the poor Sod was hit by two ricochets at 300m nobody could pull that shot off deliberately. best guess the woodentop before him fucked up the unload and thenwas a too bone idle to check the gun and then decided to amuse himself by aiming at Mr McAnespie's back. pulled the trigger and surprise the gun went off.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The older "ex IRA" people (PIRA) mentioned in The Times newspaper, are not the only republican group with military backgrounds around. With respect to them they don't always know or control everything.
It would be like asking the 1916 -1922 IRA to control the 1970s PIRA. In other words, the RIRA's right hand doesn't always know what it's left hand is doing. And the older PIRA is perfectly ok with that.
Not to mention the CIRA or the RCIRA or the INLA.

 

[ska invita]

Good point re any just customs union deal, it does not "entirely solve the question of the Irish border, as the proposed customs union would not allow people to travel unhindered, just goods. "

 

[Raheem]

Good point re any just customs union deal, it does not "entirely solve the question of the Irish border, as the proposed customs union would not allow people to travel unhindered, just goods. "

It wouldn't entirely resolve the border question, but it would stop it from being completely unresolvable in principle.

 

[ska invita]

It wouldn't entirely resolve the border question, but it would stop it from being completely unresolvable in principle.

I dont follow, can you say more? A border is required to solve the two Brexit-created problems, legal passage of goods and legal passage of people. A customs union only solves one of those problems. I cant see how it makes any difference to the other.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I dont follow, can you say more? A border is required to solve the two Brexit-created problems, legal passage of goods and legal passage of people. A customs union only solves one of those problems. I cant see how it makes any difference to the other.

As Ireland is not in Schengen, it’s not hard to conceive of a continuing Irish-British free travel arrangement. Travelers from the rest of the EU already have to go through passport control to get into Ireland. The customs union is the conceptually trickier part.

 

[ska invita]

As Ireland is not in Schengen, it’s not hard to conceive of a continuing Irish-British free travel arrangement. Travelers from the rest of the EU already have to go through passport control to get into Ireland. The customs union is the conceptually trickier part.

I cant picture what you mean.
Someone from the EU getting in to Ireland is a wave through, but they can then just jump on a ferry to anglesey undetected