England vs South Africa, 2012

[littlebabyjesus]

He must have done, but I'm not good enough on statsguru to work out what his average is when he keeps as opposed to when he just bats. I know Alec Stewart's batting average dipped as soon as he started keeping full time and Sangakarra no longer keeps in tests because his batting is to important..

Stewart: 34 as keeper, 46 not keeper.

Sangakkara: 40 as keeper, 70 (yes, 70) not keeper.

Worst thing about that Stewart stat is that he was never England's best keeper - that was always Jack Russell (test av 27).

I think the moral there is that you don't try to convert your best batsman into a keeper.

 

[Teaboy]

Sangakkara: 40 as keeper, 70 (yes, 70) not keeper.

Gotta love those Sri Lanka v India tests where both teams score 600 in the first innings and then go home. The most lifeless pitches in the world by far.

 

[paulhackett]

Sadly Sangakarra can't sledge as well from mid off

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Gotta love those Sri Lanka v India tests where both teams score 600 in the first innings and then go home. The most lifeless pitches in the world by far.

All the same - a 30 run an innings difference.

 

[Teaboy]

All the same - a 30 run an innings difference.

For sure. It does highlight the selection difficulty SA face.

 

[Santino]

Strauss warming up with a 50 and a century against Nottingham.

 

[Idaho]

Looking forward to the first test. Pietersen smashing a double hundred at Guildford, Strauss getting a ton at Uxbridge, Cook on form, Bell on form, even fucking Bopara on form!

My squad:

Strauss
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Bell
Bopara
Prior
Anderson
Broad
Finn
Swann

That's looking like a pretty formidable side right now.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm guessing the team will be the above but with Bresnan in for Finn. I'd play Bresnan and Finn and leave out Bopara, but that's the one thing I'm sure they won't do.

 

[Idaho]

Bresnan's done himself a mischief hasn't he? If he's fit then it's a 50-50 for Finn in my reckoning. I just think that Finn could be one of the greats, whereas Bresnan has something of the lifelong journeyman about him.

Bopara is getting runs and wickets - I've never rated him, but I reckon it's shit or bust for him re. Tests.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I totally agree. But I also think there's room in the side for both of them. At the moment, come 60 overs or so, the opposition get a breather for a bit as Trott (or Bopara now he's playing) trundles in, and then Broad and Swann bat in the tail. There's no need. Prior's easily good enough to bat at 6, Bresnan-Broad-Swann are a strong 789.

But I'm a broken record on that one...

 

[Idaho]

I agree with you completely on the 5 bowlers. England either need 6 batsmen or we need 11. The extra one is just denting our bowling attack.

The one-day side showed how we are going to win. The bowling attack just cramp them up and pick them off, and then our batsmen play a steady, patient and competent innings and clock the runs.

 

[paulhackett]

Bresnan's done himself a mischief hasn't he? If he's fit then it's a 50-50 for Finn in my reckoning. I just think that Finn could be one of the greats, whereas Bresnan has something of the lifelong journeyman about him.

Bopara is getting runs and wickets - I've never rated him, but I reckon it's shit or bust for him re. Tests.

Your 11 looks about right to me - depends on pitch, fitness (how bad is Swann's elbow?). I'd prefer Finn to Bresnan because he gives an option the others don't, whereas Anderson and Broad both get reverse etc.

They have to bat 6 against an attack and on English pitches against the SA attack? Bopara's playing well and gives a seam up wobble option to the 4 bowlers, Bairstow had a first baller today, too soon for Morgan to come back, although would love to see him play. (Drop Bell..)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Morgan's chances against Steyn and Philander? Nah. He wouldn't get to 20. Not up to it at test level, I don't think. If they're going to go for six batsmen, they've got to give Bopara his chance I think. As Idaho says, shit or bust for him, but he deserves one last go, imo.

 

[paulhackett]

He's batting with more confidence, eased out the (even more) idiosyncratic oddities he'd developed apparently. He looked very balanced at the crease in the ODIs. I'd be OK with him against Steyn and Philander. Wouldn't you pick him again (ever)? Bopara is the one who tends to edge to slip and Bairstow looked like he could get bounced out?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I would pick Morgan again, but not until he's proved himself in the four-day game. He was picked initially on a hunch from his one-day performances - his four-day record is actually very poor. Now I have no problem with that - Trescothick was picked on a hunch too, and it proved a brilliant hunch. But Morgan had his go - a decent go, imo - on the back of the hunch and he failed. Now, I'd say he must go out and produce in county cricket, and I don't just mean one big hundred, I mean consistent runs. Then I'd pick him. But I would not pick him again ahead of others who are performing better than him in the county championship.

 

[Idaho]

Morgan is a brilliant one day player. The opposition must see him as a real threat there. But he just hasn't done enough in the long form.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

My question against Morgan would be how much he wants it. He appears to see the pay cheque from the ipl as his no. 1 priority. For that one reason alone, I'd give Bopara his last chance ahead of Morgan. Bopara turned down the ipl to try to play test cricket. Good on him for that, and I think his recent good form should be rewarded with another go at test level.

I would not pick Morgan again at all this year. If he really wants to play test cricket again, he'll turn down next year's ipl and play in the first two months of the county championship instead. I'd tell him as much as well if I were a selector.

 

[gabi]

In a move seemingly designed to wind you up LBJ, it looks like they're gonna need to find room for KP again

 

[paulhackett]

I'm amazed he didn't play a single minute at IPL this year (but got paid £220k).

He says “One massive positive from the IPL is it gave me two months of hard work, unlimited facilities and unlimited bowlers. Spin-bowling specific is what I’ve worked on and it gave me volume, which is what I needed.", which makes sense. Plus he says he was 2 or 3 places away from getting back in the Test side, so no matter what he did at Middlesex, Bopara and Bairstow were before him if Patel was dropped.

£220k for an extended net. It's got to be hard to turn down in the circumstances.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

He says “One massive positive from the IPL is it gave me two months of hard work, unlimited facilities and unlimited bowlers. Spin-bowling specific is what I’ve worked on and it gave me volume, which is what I needed.",

I respectfully disagree. What Morgan needs is time in the middle scoring runs in proper long-form cricket.

He wants the money - fine. But it's not as though England centrally contracted players are poor. Far from it. And Bopara turned down the money in order to try to get back into the test team. If Morgan doesn't care about playing test cricket, that's up to him. No great loss afaic.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In a move seemingly designed to wind you up LBJ, it looks like they're gonna need to find room for KP again

I think KP is a twat, and a selfish twat at that. But I've never denied that he's a good player. He had the potential to be a great player, imo, but hasn't quite lived up to that. I don't care too much either way, tbh, about all that tip-and-run nonsense.

 

[paulhackett]

In a move seemingly designed to wind you up LBJ, it looks like they're gonna need to find room for KP again

Except now Ian Bell is doing well in the ODI team he could maybe just play T20s so problem solved.. With 2 white balls per innings I'd think there's more need to pick 123s rather a 4, so Cook, Trott, Bell, Bopara etc. You could even argue in those circs for recalling Strauss..

 

[Santino]

Keep Bell in the ODI side and pick KP for Tests and 20-20.

 

[Idaho]

Pietersen seems determined to find the point at which he is more trouble than he's worth.

 

[Santino]

Bopara in the Test squad.

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm largely of LBJ's opinion. I've never rated Bopara but I guess he deserves a last chance.

From the point of view of future election prospects Root scored a double hundred for Yorkshire this week, hopefully he can keep up that form and ultimately will be able to take up Strauss's place.

 

[Jimathon]

I think Bopara's improved a lot and deserves his chance. Playing him at 3 in an Ashes series when he'd just broken into the team (picked too early in my view) was as comedy as playing Bell at 4 in 2005 when a certain G. Thorpe was hot and ready for action.

The dream is for Morgan to come good at make number 6 his own, as if he comes off he could be utterly destructive there, our own Gilchrist almost. But until then, I'd be more than delighted for Bopara to prove his worth as he has for the ODI team.

Can't wait for the series to start, should be a cracker.

 

[Idaho]

OK - predictions.

2-0 England.

 

[Jimathon]

Given the summer we've had I'm assuming at least one will be washed out, so 1-1

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Short rain delay, England to bat first. Team is as you'd expect - would have quite liked to see Finn given a go although Bresnan hasn't done anything wrong.