TrippyLondoner
Well-Known Member
Its an important point that i would've made anyway.
Thanks for the correction, though if ballack wasn't injured it wouldn't have been all. 
England v Germany
- Thread starter goldenecitrone
- Start date
Its an important point that i would've made anyway.
Thanks for the correction, though if ballack wasn't injured it wouldn't have been all. 
tommers
Busta Rhymes is an unstoppable movement
Its an important point that i would've made anyway.
Yeah. But he is.
This is a stupid argument. (not us, we're not even having one but the whole overarching "england players can't be as good as the germans because they don't play in spain" one that certain people seem to be clutching at.)
discokermit
Well-Known Member
it's impossible to get a decent bag of chips abroad. fact.
TrippyLondoner
Well-Known Member
This wins the argument.
tommers
Busta Rhymes is an unstoppable movement
mattie
missing in inaction
I'd suspect this was more linked to wage demands than to ability.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I suspect it's ability - english players are not technically skilled.
Even in the permiership only 30% of the players are english.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
You can't have it both ways.
I'm not trying to.
I think you will find, Tommers, that I chose to base my argument on Germany being in better form.
I chose this line for good reason you know
mattie
missing in inaction
In this case, I suspect it was more linked to wage demands than to ability.
Unless you're saying Joe Cole isn't technically skilled, which would be, well, flat-out wrong. Badly wrong.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Yeah, tbf he's one of the few English players adept at keeping hold of the ball.
Preferred him more in his show-boating West Ham days mind.
AverageJoe
...
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
You can't have it both ways.
he bloody can if it suits him, just watch him!
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
really, all of them could, all we're arguing about really is the level they could play at. Jermaine Pennant got a good solid 25 games for a team in La Liga last season, and he's never even got near an England squad as far as I can recall.
(I could argue the reverse about Guti for instance, regular at Real Madrid for a good decade, widely acknowledged to be available this summer, and no evident interest from anyone outside Spain)
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I just think they're very over-hyped and over-rated.
That's so not what I've heard about his time in spain.
TrippyLondoner
Well-Known Member
What a shocker.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
If that's the case then they're overhyped and over-rated internationally too. Not just here.
Hey, I'm not arguing he's been their best player or anything, but clearly they fancied him enough to offer him a good contract (better than he got in England), and let him play in over half their games last season. He was a flop everywhere except Birmingham in England, despite having a reputation of having talent ready to be fulfilled. If he could get a move to a top flight spanish side, anyone in the England squad could.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Beyond three or four players at the very most I'm sure they are not rated internationally.
He was a free transfer to a recently promoted spanish side who finished 14th, he's only started 13 games and has got no goals and one assist. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with him - do you follow football much?
TrippyLondoner
Well-Known Member
So you're saying germany players are crap too then as they only play in germany, sleater? Personally i think you're just biased towards hating england, but whatever.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Apparently Danny Baker was listening to some pundits on South African radio who were saying that England "perform badly when they need to, but in big matches bring out big performances" and even went on to say we'd win the tournament!
And they "weren't crazy pundits" either, apparently
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Apparently Danny Baker was listening to some pundits on South African radio who were saying that England "perform badly when they need to, but in big matches bring out big performances" and even went on to say we'd win the tournament!
And they "weren't crazy pundits" either, apparently
Pundits speak bollocks shocker, readallaboutit
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney are certainly all rated internationally. I'm sure how many teams would have a longer list.
Fuck me. Yes. You asked me how many of the England squad could play in Spain or Italy. I said they all could, if they wanted to. I then gave you an example of a shit player, someone a long way off the standard of the England squad, who makes a living, playing football for a team in La Liga. I'm saying that every single player in the england squad could make a living playing in La Liga or Serie A and that all we're arguing about is the level they could make it at.
Would Didier Zakora make the England squad? No. Is he a regular starter for Sevilla? Yes.
Do you see where I'm going here?
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Thomas Cook?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Y'know when you're in a relationship, and you're really pissed off but your partner isn't taking it as seriously and just makes it so much worse by saying "oooh, you're so cute when you're angry"...?
At least you don't have to suck my cock
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Terry and Lampard are prime examples of being over-hyped, Ferdinand has lost it
I'm saying a free transfer who started 13 games does not make any kind of point. It wasn't a success so I don't know why you brought it up.
In fact english player moving abroad and being shit kind of makes my point.
Of course he would - look at the likes of upson, barry, heskey etc.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Again, I'm not arguing about whether they're overhyped or not. If they are, it's a delusion shared continent-wide. The commentators here don't say "Franki Lampard, like you'd expect, gives the ball away", they say "it's strange how Lampard doesn't recreate his Chelsea form for England consistently"
If the point you're arguing against is that Spanish clubs don't want English players because they're shit it does. They gave this player, who no one rates, even in England, a big three year contract, he was their big signing of the summer.
The fact he was shit for them (or basically mediocre, they want rid because he doesn't train hard enough and is on big wages apparently) is irrelevant. Moves don't work out sometimes for a variety of reasons. It's not been suggested that Pennant's style was more suited to the Premier League, just that he's a workshy little shit (I could of told them that).
Point is, Zaragoza wanted him, that he could find a club in Spain. Just like anyone in the England squad could.
Now, if you were saying, "very few English players would interest good teams in Spain" you might have a point. But having chosen to say "very few english players could play in italy or spain FULL STOP." And continuing to defend it, you're being ridiculous.
Didier Zakora. You remember him right? The guy who couldn't get a start for Tottenham ahead of Jermaine Jenas? If you think he'd make the England squad you're a massive joke.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I would have though it's obvious - he hasn't got players like Ballack, Mikel etc to back him up.
That fact that they wanted him showed they didn't know what they were doing.
Ok, I'll concede, somewhere within all of spanish or italian football they could get a game.
Jenas, now he played for england - I don't think he's better or worse than zakora.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Yeah, I'm fairly confident if Zakora was English he'd have been capped, several times. Maybe not a regular but still. I mean, look at some of the other shitehawks who've been capped. Michael Ricketts springs to mind.
Also, the sheer turnover of players at Spuds... Wasn't Zakora regaled as the new Essien when he signed? Tbf, Spuds can make any player look bad.
Also, the sheer turnover of players at Spuds... Wasn't Zakora regaled as the new Essien when he signed? Tbf, Spuds can make any player look bad.
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