England v Germany - Tuesday 29/06 - 17:00

[JTG]

Oh, also, while absolutely not dismissing it as an advantage, the fact an unfortunately audible portion of our 'home' crowd still boo our players when they take the knee, alongside the usual unreasonable pressure put on the England team by some of its fans, and I'm not sure our home advantage will be quite as advantageous as it should be

Still, if nothing else, the lack of travelling and being able to train in our regular facilities will have helped.

I don't think the players give the slightest shit about those people tbh, as they've made perfectly clear

 

[Lord Camomile]

Clean sheet and never in danger of going out of the tournament. Unlike Germany

Not playing France or Portugal, unlike Germany. Hell, even Hungary are above both Scotland and Czech Republic in the rankings! (Yes, FIFA rankings are questionable, but at least suggests they're relatively similar prospects, other variables not withstanding)

Also, as I said at the time, feel like those clean sheets weren't always totally secure and/or down to our mighty defensive acumen!

I don't think the players give the slightest shit about those people tbh, as they've made perfectly clear

Aye, p'raps not, but if we accept that the home crowd are part of home advantage, then even just having to ignore part of your home crowd diminishes that home advantage, at least a little bit.

 

[The Octagon]

Hope Sancho gets some decent game time, the German players are probably mystified (and happy) that he doesn't seem to be starting against them.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I’ve taken 8/1 on 2-1 England

 

[JTG]

Not playing France or Portugal, unlike Germany. Hell, even Hungary are above both Scotland and Czech Republic in the rankings! (Yes, FIFA rankings are questionable, but at least suggests they're relatively similar prospects, other variables not withstanding)

Also, as I said at the time, feel like those clean sheets weren't always totally secure and/or down to our mighty defensive acumen!



Aye, p'raps not, but if we accept that the home crowd are part of home advantage, then even just having to ignore part of your home crowd diminishes that home advantage, at least a little bit.

France and Portugal are both out while the Czechs are in the quarter finals so there's that

 

[JTG]

I’ve taken 8/1 on 2-1 England

You're backing England to concede? Bold

 

[strung out]

France and Portugal are both out while the Czechs are in the quarter finals so there's that

Yes, but what you're forgetting is that France got knocked out to the might of, err <checks notes> Switzerland, who couldn't even beat Wales and only finished third in their group.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Things are certainly set up favourably for England, and more so than a lot of other teams (e.g. Portugal's run of Germany, France, Belgium, [Italy]), so in terms of 'they've got a better chance than usual', absolutely.

Does that make me confident? Not especially.

Again, I absolutely believe we could win some games, arguably beat any team on our side of the draw, on our day, but I could just as easily see us losing to any of 'em as well. We're that sort of a team

It's that sort of a tournament.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, but what you're forgetting is that France got knocked out to the might of, err <checks notes> Switzerland, who couldn't even beat Wales and only finished third in their group.

All of which suggests that Denmark are dead certs to win the whole thing.

 

[JTG]

Yes, but what you're forgetting is that France got knocked out to the might of, err <checks notes> Switzerland, who couldn't even beat Wales and only finished third in their group.

Not even beating Wales should mean disqualification from the next Euros tbh

 

[Kaka Tim]

The scotland game was a derby - it was always likely to be a scrappy affair with an opposition treating it like a cup final. Also scotland had to win - whilst England only needed a point to be sure of qualifying. One flat group game does not make a disaster. See also England vs Switzland in euro 96 or against Ireland at Italia 90. England then went on to play some of their best ever tournament football.
So far England have been efficient, composed and generally in control of games. Its been cautious, they are probably playing below their potential - but they have had some flashes of real attacking threat. Whilst wed all like to see southgate release the brakes and let rip - It may well be that this is exactly the right approach to take against an erratic German side .

 

[Wilf]

I’ve gone Germany win in 90 mins. They just seem a better side compared to the pretty lacklustre England so far.

Would love to to be wrong of course. Not least because of the significance for our Gareth.

Yep, all of that. There's probably 6 or 7 teams in the world who would beat England most times they played, very much including Germany. England look to be as good as anybody outside that elite group. Kind of battling for a Europa League spot if they were a Prem League Team.

 

[The39thStep]

I’m betting on Havertz to score at any time , might put it in a bet builder .

 

[JTG]

The scotland game was a derby - it was always likely to be a scrappy affair with an opposition treating it like a cup final. Also scotland had to win - whilst England only needed a point to be sure of qualifying. One flat group game does not make a disaster. See also England vs Switzland in euro 96 or against Ireland at Italia 90. England then went on to play some of their best ever tournament football.
So far England have been efficient, composed and generally in control of games. Its been cautious, they are probably playing below their potential - but they have had some flashes of real attacking threat. Whilst wed all like to see southgate release the brakes and let rip - It may well be that this is exactly the right approach to take against an erratic German side .

Yeah, nobody wins tournaments by playing their best football in the first round. Just get through, it's a tournament, not Crufts

 

[Wilf]

I’ve got an hospital appointment at 4 o’clock, will be around 5:30 at the earliest before I get out. Maybe I can get reception on my phone/iPad whilst there. Otherwise it will be on updates from this thread.
ETA: I will be able to listen to 5live on 4G hopefully.

I've been recording loads of matches. Always seems like a good idea, but I can't stop myself fast forwarding when it get's boring and then missing the goals.

 

[JTG]

Yep, all of that. There's probably 6 or 7 teams in the world who would beat England most times they played, very much including Germany. England look to be as good as anybody outside that elite group. Kind of battling for a Europa League spot if they were a Prem League Team.

Have you not been watching or something?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not even beating Wales should mean disqualification from the next Euros tbh

There's a lot to be said for not losing tbf. And of course no extra time or pens in the group stages. Portugal won in 2016 after not losing in the group stages.

 

[Wilf]

Have you not been watching or something?

Hard to know how to answer that question.

 

[JTG]

There's a lot to be said for not losing tbf. And of course no extra time or pens in the group stages. Portugal won in 2016 after not losing in the group stages.

Italy have been going deep into tournaments for generations after being complete guff in the opening games. Greece 2004 never got going at all and won it.
Just stay in and let everyone else exhaust themselves with the epic battles

 

[BCBlues]

I’m betting on Havertz to score at any time , might put it in a bet builder .

How annoying will it be if Werner plays a blinder and scores a hat trick

 

[Lord Camomile]

France and Portugal are both out while the Czechs are in the quarter finals so there's that

Feel like all of this is putting rather too much emphasis on individual games...

 

[strung out]

Feel like all of this is putting rather too much emphasis on individual games...

That's tournament football. Greece didn't win the Euros in 2004 by being the 'best' team, they just came out better in each individual game.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Feel like all of this is putting rather too much emphasis on individual games...

True. Should consider all the relevant games

So...

England: pld 3 w 2 d 1 l 0 including defeating one of the quarter-finalists and one beaten rd 16, draw with the team eliminated in the group

Germany: pld 3 w 1 d 1 l 1 including defeating one beaten rd 16 and defeat to one beaten rd 16, draw with the team eliminated in the group

Germany may well win, but the idea that it's England who've been lacklustre in this tournament just doesn't make sense.

 

[JTG]

That's tournament football. Greece didn't win the Euros in 2004 by being the 'best' team, they just came out better in each individual game.

If we zoom out from individual games, we find that England have the better recent competitive record (WC semi finalists, top of WC qualifying group with maximum points vs humiliating first round exit in 2018 and third in WC qualifying after a humiliating defeat to North Macedonia). Zoom further out and we have England ranked fourth in the world - on a par with actual 2018 performance - and Germany 12th.

Germany are capable of winning of course. But there isn't much in their favour just now bar some fans having bad vibes about the whole thing

 

[Badgers]

 

[Pickman's model]

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Sadly Gareth Southgate has been taking football tips from sir keir starmer

 

[ruffneck23]

My internet just had a 30 min wobble, hope it holds out for the match

 

[The39thStep]

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Any news on whether Mason Mount is in or out?

 

[Badgers]

Any news on whether Mason Mount is in or out?

On the bench I read

Along with Grealish and Sancho but the official team sheet is not out. Usually The Athletic is pretty spot on mind.

 

[Sprocket.]

Guess which gormless old get left his earphones at home?