Donald Trump - MAGAtwat news and discussion

[redsquirrel]

this goes to a deeper question on this board but all over the left (however conceived). since my teens, the default setting has been that people are widgets created in a factory called society and are not will-ful actors, "but i, being a bien-pensant, know this and am educating others to their own minds".

my own position is that otoh, no human ever has lived in a perfectly postmodern world where one can pick from a menu of affects/expressions/feelings and construct an identity out of them; so we're all constrained, differently in different eras. otoh, unless you can show me synapses running out of one person's head and into another's, nobody knows anything ever of anyone else's interior experience, until you've known a person long enough to get a sense of that, which takes years.

so our strong theoreticians here (no names) should wind their necks in and take people at their word until otherwise indicated. there's nothing, for example, the matter with kansas: those poeple have knowingly chosen to take ideological satisfaction over material satisfaction, and those attempting to shoehorn the lives of others into their own categories can fuck off.

I agree with your that we cannot "pick from a menu of affects/expressions/feelings and construct an identity out of them", we are acting in a hugely complex world and the material conditions we have experienced. But from that surely the second paragraph contradicts the third? People don't, either psychologically or politically, make clear knowing choices

Psychologically we are very bad at understanding our motivations. To take the recent rioters in the UK for example, many of these people stated (in the courtroom where they ended up) that they did not intend to get involved with violence, that they got involved because they saw something happening etc. Frankly the reasons many gave where pretty crap and didn't, and shouldn't, help them avoid the responsibility of their actions.
But I don't think all of them went out knowing that they were going to attempt to burn down a hostel and/or get into a ruck with the police. They (unjustifiably) wanted to vent their anger, a good number were intoxicated to a greater or lesser extent, and when they met as a group they spurred each other on and the events took their course.

Politically, the material conditions that people have experienced/are experiencing are a crucial factor in people's actions. Those actions are shaped by the class struggle (as well as other social and material factors) and in turn shape the class struggle.

Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living.

I dispute that the vast majority of Kansas voters (or any group of people) make such a clear cut, knowing choice as you claim. In many cases their families, friends and community will have voted one way or the other (in the case of Kansas most likely Republican), there may be (are likely to be) emotional factors for their choice of vote, for many voters it may be less of the political choice and more a selection of their 'team'. And of course racial/sexual/etc oppressions present in society will be internalised - prejudices that are weighing like nightmares. And of course "material satisfaction" is itself rarely clear cut, what does it mean to workers that the economy is doing well.

 

[brogdale]

Musk has apparently been dropping “Novus Ordo Seclorum” in posts as well. The wannabe “world emperors” are also massive trolls ….

Novus Ordo Seclorum, indeed...

 

[Nylock]

I don't think the Democrats have much chance of winning the House anyway - Republicans need six more seats for a majority and they're ahead in at least 10 close races that haven't been called yet.

But if they retake the majority in 2026, they probably won't rule out impeaching Trump for the many crimes he will have committed by then, especially if there are many deaths in the massive deportation camps he has vowed to set up

Yeah, 2026 I can understand but the very idea that dems are cueing up an impeachment ready to go on day one stinks of disinformation bullshit. Not even the dems are that myopic and thick-headed...

 

[krtek a houby]

I think he would have won in 2020 but for COVID.

But him and his supporters reckon he did win, so he'll be on his 3rd term come January...

 

[spring-peeper]

But if they retake the majority in 2026, they probably won't rule out impeaching Trump for the many crimes he will have committed by then, especially if there are many deaths in the massive deportation camps he has vowed to set up

I thought that the Supreme Court ruled that the president can't be prosecuted for what he did while in power????

 

[frogwoman]

Agree but that shift has continued to happen over the last four years without Trump as President. See Twitter.

Definitely

 

[not a trot]

What my dog thinks of Trump.

 

[Serene]

On CNN right now, Trump has vowed mass deportations once he takes office.

 

[pbsmooth]

 

[Yossarian]

I thought that the Supreme Court ruled that the president can't be prosecuted for what he did while in power????

I think the ruling means that they can't be prosecuted through normal channels while in office but they can still be charged and tried by Congress

 

[WouldBe]

I think the ruling means that they can't be prosecuted through normal channels while in office but they can still be charged and tried by Congress

Which is also republican held so nothing will happen.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I think the ruling means that they can't be prosecuted through normal channels while in office but they can still be charged and tried by Congress

Not just while I’m office, but after too. Trump’s lawyers argued that criminal prosecution can only occur after impeachment and conviction in congress. SCOTUS went further and said that even after impeachment and conviction in congress, a president could never be criminally prosecuted for his core official acts. A deadly ruling, under a Trump presidency it’s implications are almost too terrifying to contemplate.

 

[danny la rouge]

What my dog thinks of Trump.

Your dog’s an idiot: where’s the apostrophe?

 

[Wilf]

Huge movement taking place; Possible 3rd impeachment looming

Steve Bannon warns of potential third Donald Trump impeachment

Trump is the only president in U.S. history to have been impeached twice by the House of Representatives.

www.newsweek.com

What is the huge movement?

 

[danny la rouge]

What is the huge movement?

Trump.

 

[tim]

What is the huge movement?

Making its way though the great orange bowel.

 

[Epona]

While everyone is navel-gazing and trying to explain definitions of various words, I'd just like to point out that some people in the US who are active in the LGBTQ+ community are sharing suicide prevention posters online, because while we can all sit here and moan about it and debate what particular words mean, there are people who are utterly devastated by the election result and feeling as though they don't have a future.
Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[Monte]

Yes, the 'upside' of Vance is that I don't think he'll command the MAGAs' fervour because it is a cult of personality and no one can take over as the head of one of those.

DJT Jnr?
'Baby Doc' Trump.

 

[Monte]

As there has been repeated attempts to assassinate Trump, the Americans must surely give Trump more guns. He should be carrying an assault rifle over his shoulder, and several pistols in holsters at all times. None of the assassination attempts would have happened if he was armed.

Convicted felons can't own firearms in most states.

 

[Wilf]

While everyone is navel-gazing and trying to explain definitions of various words, I'd just like to point out that some people in the US who are active in the LGBTQ+ community are sharing suicide prevention posters online, because while we can all sit here and moan about it and debate what particular words mean, there are people who are utterly devastated by the election result and feeling as though they don't have a future.
Just thought I'd mention that.

Saw that on the Independent site and was going to post it. As well as the actions of Trump and his cohorts, all sorts of vile people will feel energised by his win and we've already seen them posting Gilead stuff on social media. Fucking grim. Hideous.

As well as political responses to Trump, quite simply organising, I'm sure there just needs to be some common sympathy and empathy. Just being there for people at the moment. As you say, a lot of people will be feeling they are under a real threat.

 

[Epona]

Saw that on the Independent site and was going to post it. As well as the actions of Trump and his cohorts, all sorts of vile people will feel energised by his win and we've already seen them posting Gilead stuff on social media. Fucking grim. Hideous.

As well as political responses to Trump, quite simply organising, I'm sure there just needs to be some common sympathy and empathy. Just being there for people at the moment. As you say, a lot of people will be feeling they are under a real threat.

I haven't seen the Independent article, I was just going on what I had been told by LGBTQ+ people I am in contact with in the US.

Do you have a link for that article?

 

[Serene]

Convicted felons can't own firearms in most states.

They are all being quashed. Tell Raskolnikov that electoral representatives in the USA are ABOVE the law.

 

[Cloo]

While everyone is navel-gazing and trying to explain definitions of various words, I'd just like to point out that some people in the US who are active in the LGBTQ+ community are sharing suicide prevention posters online, because while we can all sit here and moan about it and debate what particular words mean, there are people who are utterly devastated by the election result and feeling as though they don't have a future.
Just thought I'd mention that.

He is basically talking about banning all trans healthcare it seems. Forcibly detransitioning people. I'd always say to people to imagine how they'd feel if the government demand they live as the opposite sex. Saying to a woman 'We've decided you're not the gender you say you are, you need to change your name, use men's loos, you can't wear skirts, you can't have long hair, you're a man now and we'll arrest you/take away your kids if you do anything that we decide is trying to present as female.' That's what is what they're doing to trans people.

 

[xenon]

I don't think the Democrats have much chance of winning the House anyway - Republicans need six more seats for a majority and they're ahead in at least 10 close races that haven't been called yet.

But if they retake the majority in 2026, they probably won't rule out impeaching Trump for the many crimes he will have committed by then, especially if there are many deaths in the massive deportation camps he has vowed to set up

What is the point of impeachment. I mean it didn’t do anything the last two times.

 

[emanymton]

What is the point of impeachment. I mean it didn’t do anything the last two times.

Even if it could do anything it seems likely to kick of big time as Trump supporters would be able to say the election was being stolen, and frankly in this case they would be right.

 

[tim]

What is the point of impeachment. I mean it didn’t do anything the last two times.

Where would Scotland be if Robert the Bruce-Forsythe had had that kind of attitude.

 

[Nylock]

Yeh, entirely comparable...

 

[Rimbaud]

Totalitarianism is a government of fear based on the cult of the individual leader. It requires the leader’s true wants to be interpreted and acted on at all times, under fear of death. It operates through circles of decreasing proximity to that leader, with each circle having every less access to knowledge and ability to act. It’s hard to imagine a system more opposite to communist ideas and it doesn’t become communism just because the totalitarian leader calls it communism!

You can use the same argument against liberalism leading to slavery though, even stronger as slavery was rarely justified directly with liberal ideology. The same argument about liberal enlightenment ideals justifying colonialism are equally true about socialist enlightenment ideals, which have been used as justifications for colonialism too (Central Asia under the Soviets, Tibet etc under the Chinese Communist Party).

IMO it's disingenuous to say that liberal ideology is responsible for all of the evils of imperialism, colonialism etc but that socialist ideology can't be blamed for the actions of states professing to be building communism.

 

[kabbes]

The point isn’t that there is a flow of political philosophy from liberalism to colonialism. It’s that liberalism and colonialism in the 17th and 18th centuries mutually constituted each other. It isn’t that “liberal ideology is responsible for all of the evils of imperialism, colonialism etc”. It’s that the historical material circumstances of the 17th and 18th century produced both sets of social philosophies in combination with each other, like two strands of a double-helix. You can’t understand 17th and 18th century colonialism without understanding the growth of Enlightenment liberal philosophy, and you can’t understand the spread of Enlightenment liberal philosophy without placing it into its colonial context. It isn’t that slavery is or isn’t “liberal” (and the very idea that the word “liberal” can be separated from its cultural-historical context is itself a liberal notion). It’s that liberalism is based on positivist rationalism, and so is slavery. So it really doesn’t matter if liberals call slavery liberal or not. The things are ontologically entwined. You can’t say that for totalitarianism and communism. Communism is a philosophy derived from economic class analysis. Totalitarianism did not grow entwined around that. It came from a cultural-historical context of capitalist class relations, not communist ones.

 

[a_chap]

An interesting, plausible and very depressing analysis:

What Happens Next?

The administrative state under a second Trump term

donmoynihan.substack.com

p.s. I posted this to the wrong channel initially, hence the repost here