Doctor Who 2023

[danny la rouge]

Well quite. We don’t like it when historical characters who were real people who did real things and had particular characteristics are then portrayed as the exact opposite of those real things

That isn’t what I’m agreeing to, btw.

 

[Santino]

That isn’t what I’m agreeing to, btw.

We've agreed the principle and are now merely haggling over the price.

 

[belboid]

I think the fact that I have a particular fascination with the Enlightenment and the philosophers (natural and otherwise) of that time makes it particularly hurt. It grates to see Newton skipping along and making up words from nothing. What’s next — they go and see Kant, who insists that we can experience objects directly with absolute certainty? Or Pepys is portrayed as a miserable fucker who hates wine and song?

you don't seem to understand Newton, Kant or Doctor Who.

 

[belboid]

I think we can still expect it to have a certain fidelity to historic events. You're just disagreeing about where the line should be drawn. How would we all feel if Rosa Parks had been accidentally knocked onto a bus seat by a clumsy companion?

That would depend exactly what they then did with the story. The supposed fact that Newton was a grumpy sod is irrelevant to the story (and we've seen its set in a somewhat alternative universe anyway) and in no way changes anything essential about his historical influence. The fact he came up with the word for the things he discovered is still there, he just got it slightly differently. It doesn't affect anything in the slightest.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don’t give a monkey’s who plays Newton. I just don’t want him to be portrayed as friendly, light-hearted or impulsive.

 

[gosub]

I thought it was brave of RTD to tackle the nut jobs who think Eskimos should be played by Eskimos guys by guys etc head on. It's called acting.

Shame they ruined it having species of apple that wasn't around in C17. If they can't even get basic stuff like that right you begin to question the entire premise.

 

[AverageJoe]

Why doesn't anyone read the thread!!

This episode is definitely set up to provide an alternative time line that Tennant and his companions can pop into every now and again.

Happy Newton, Mavity. Fucks sake. Read the thread

 

[PR1Berske]

It seems like costumes are going to be a thing in the Gatwa era. Not just one costume, but maybe even a wardrobe with culturally appropriate choices!

Going without costumes is also his thing too, if that takes your fancy

 

[danny la rouge]

Well, I’m with Billie Eilish: why box yourself in with sexuality labels?

 

[PR1Berske]

Spoiler: Very lightly NSFW

 

[A380]

Ah brillant, cheers. The search page on the iplayer didn’t suggest it at all- but then I started the search with ‘confidential’.

On a different subject, I was checking reviews online earlier and the Telegraph’s suggested the noticeably higher-than-usual visual effects are a result of the series having signed a lucrative distribution deal with Disney+.

I didn’t know that- surprising in a way as I can’t imagine the programme being that lucrative in overseas markets- but I guess so long as Disney doesn’t intend to interfere with the creative side of things and simply showers Davies with cash, it’s good news.

What’s a sonic bibity bobbity boodriver between friends…

 

[gosub]

Well quite. We don’t like it when historical characters who were real people who did real things and had particular characteristics are then portrayed as the exact opposite of those real things

Quite right. You can't go round glibly tinkering with time. Who do they think they are

 

[kabbes]

It’s not just “fiddling with the time line” to posit exactly the same context but ignoring everything that the context contains. It’s slapstick bunk.

Newton came from a particular milieu. He was what he was not just through some timey-wimey random quirk of genetics or something but because he lived a particular place at a particular time. That context included a recent civil war, a Protestantism that was in the ascendancy but under challenge and a personal background that led him down the route of alchemy and physics in the pursuit of understanding God’s presence. Now, you can postulate a completely different timeline that doesn’t contain Newton at all. But you can’t just say that everything else is the same including that this man exists at this time discovering these things but somehow the man Newton himself is a completely different person. It makes no sense.

If you want a different time line then stick to your guns and actually make a history. One that isn’t this history with this person in this place. Otherwise what’s the point in using this particular historical figure?

 

[ruffneck23]

Im sure it is part of a much bigger arc so cool your jets man

 

[mojo pixy]

It’s not just “fiddling with the time line” to posit exactly the same context but ignoring everything that the context contains. It’s slapstick bunk.

Newton came from a particular milieu. He was what he was not just through some timey-wimey random quirk of genetics or something but because he lived a particular place at a particular time. That context included a recent civil war, a Protestantism that was in the ascendancy but under challenge and a personal background that led him down the route of alchemy and physics in the pursuit of understanding God’s presence. Now, you can postulate a completely different timeline that doesn’t contain Newton at all. But you can’t just say that everything else is the same including that this man exists at this time discovering these things but somehow the man Newton himself is a completely different person. It makes no sense.

If you want a different time line then stick to your guns and actually make a history. One that isn’t this history with this person in this place. Otherwise what’s the point in using this particular historical figure?

Yebbut it's Doctor Who, it's not really even sci-fi any more, its more a kind of sci-fi-flavoured culture jamming fluff. They've always done this sort of thing, facetiously messing with real events and people. That's one of the many reasons I only have the patience to watch the show when I'm with a child or children who want to watch it.

 

[kabbes]

Im sure it is part of a much bigger arc so cool your jets man

There’s no bigger arc that can justify it. That’s my point.

Look, it is what it is. I just thought it was a shit beginning to the program that took me out of the fantasy and made me irritated instead. I don’t really know why so many people are trying to persuade me that I shouldn’t have been irritated after all. I thought it was shit, you’re just going to have to somehow live with that fact.

 

[Santino]

you don't seem to understand Newton, Kant or Doctor Who.

What did Kant say about experience?

 

[prunus]

What did Kant say about experience?

I think it was something like “I just can’t…” wasn’t it?

 

[Cerv]

I enjoyed the meat of the episode, a sort of Dr Who does Event Horizon.
The first scene when The Doctor and Donna were separated but didn't realise it was so very well done.

Was a shame about the tacked on opening scene. Which wasn't related at all In plot or theme. And wasn't even very well done. The humour totally fell flat.
It it does turn out to be this year's equivalent of "bad wolf" or whatever being shoehorned into every episode before a big reveal in the final, big deal. That's still, 20 years later, a crap way of writing.

 

[PR1Berske]

To perhaps move on from this divergence, a collection of Big Finish stories are on BBC Sounds.

BBC Sounds - Doctor Who - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of Doctor Who on BBC Sounds

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Lol. I thought it was fun. I like the silly jokes. I know the word goes back to an Indo-European root, via Latin, but that’s part of what makes it funny (to me).

Like this:



It doesn’t actually make real world sense as a reaction from art snobs. But it’s funny.

City of death was one of my favourites as a kid, I loved the whole concept. I never forgot the jagaroth, the spaceship or the story (though I didn't remember the art snobs at the end).
In other stories around the time I only remembered details (like balls dropping off heads and the doctor getting his arms and legs ripped off in the leisure hive).

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

I really enjoyed that - probably more than I've enjoyed a Dr Who episode for a decade or two.

 

[Kaka Tim]

'Loving this new jizz music.'

make it so!

 

[CNT36]

City of death was one of my favourites as a kid, I loved the whole concept. I never forgot the jagaroth, the spaceship or the story (though I didn't remember the art snobs at the end).
In other stories around the time I only remembered details (like balls dropping off heads and the doctor getting his arms and legs ripped off in the leisure hive).

I quite enjoyed the ridiculousness of Duggan. There's a light hearted relaxed tone to the story that I found unique in what I've seen of the classic series but somewhat similar to parts of RTDs first run.

 

[belboid]

'Loving this new jizz music.'

Disney would not be having that

Disney quietly removes jizz from Star Wars continuity | Boing Boing

 

[belboid]

What did Kant say about experience?

Several books full of stuff. He enjoyed it, mostly.

 

[A380]

There’s no bigger arc that can justify it. That’s my point.

Look, it is what it is. I just thought it was a shit beginning to the program that took me out of the fantasy and made me irritated instead. I don’t really know why so many people are trying to persuade me that I shouldn’t have been irritated after all. I thought it was shit, you’re just going to have to somehow live with that fact.

Apparently quite a lot of televisions nowadays have a button that can turn them off, and some even have buttons to show programmes different to the one you are watching. Technology is marvellous.

 

[kabbes]

Apparently quite a lot of televisions nowadays have a button that can turn them off, and some even have buttons to show programmes different to the one you are watching. Technology is marvellous.

Did you miss the parts of the thread when several times I said I loved the rest of the program? Would have been a bit fucking stupid to turn it off before seeing that, wouldn’t it?

Why can’t you handle anything less than 100% enthusiasm for the whole show?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I quite enjoyed the ridiculousness of Duggan. There's a light hearted relaxed tone to the story that I found unique in what I've seen of the classic series but somewhat similar to parts of RTDs first run.

Written in part by Douglas Adams, I don't recall it being light hearted at all at the time. I found the Jagaroths back story and plight quite tragic and a convincing motivation. Not dummbed down and not too complicated for kids. Brain food.

But then I also like that Dalek one with the Movellans (which also stuck in my brain hole) which was critically panned.

 

[CNT36]

Written in part by Douglas Adams, I don't recall it being light hearted at all at the time. I found the Jagaroths back story and plight quite tragic and a convincing motivation. Not dummbed down and not too complicated for kids. Brain food.

But then I also like that Dalek one with the Movellans (which also stuck in my brain hole) which was critically panned.

Destiny of the Daleks. I had that one on video. Watched it a lot but not for a long time. It was a good enough story but I think it annoyed a lot of people by treating the Daleks as though they were robots in some places. Purely logical etc.

I think it may have been the first episode or so of City of Death I found light hearted before it really got into the main plot. I might be misremembering as I have only seen that the once.