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Doctor Who 2024 - News, views, spin-offs

FabricLiveBaby! said:
No, not really.

I mean it's patently obvious seeing as RTD has been talking about it himself in interviews with regard to his writing, and it's all over the wider fandom commentary, and entertainment news.

Plenty has been written about it literally everywhere else.
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No, RTD just happened to put LGBT+ characters in a good show with good stories.

You know, like in Mass Effect, a couple of decades back, when the entire world lost its shit and the entire franchise burned down due to punter bigotry.

Remember that world-ending culture war bunfight?

Y’know. Mass Effect.

Anyone?
 
8ball said:
You know, like in Mass Effect, a couple of decades back, when the entire world lost its shit and the entire franchise burned down due to punter bigotry.

Remember that world-ending culture war bunfight.

Y’know. Mass Effect.
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I actually have no idea what you are talking about.

/goes off to Google

edit: I thought typing in "gamergate" would be a good bet and 😱
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
My point about good faith still stands. And that the conversation between us will need to nowhere useful.

Plus, I'm sure you know where to find fan commentary.
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Am not going to watch a YouTube video just to find out what you're on about.

If you are unable to explain what it means, just say so.

Guessing it's a way of saying "woke" without saying "woke".

Well, here's the thing. The show has always been about being the best you can and standing against injustice and bigotry.

And it's been a constant journey, especially over the last 19 years about the Doctor rediscovering their own identity. From their actions in the Time War, to their origins and right up to today being themselves and not apologising for it.
 
krtek a houby said:
Well, here's the thing. The show has always been about being the best you can and standing against injustice and bigotry.
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That may be your head canon, but it’s definitely a stretch for pre-reboot Who. It’s a show about an alien adventurer which reflects the morals and preoccupations of the audience and writers over the last sixty-two years.
 
8ball said:
It’s a bit like saying Star Trek was just a political vehicle for lefty anti-war messaging.
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You know what. That's exactly it. I bloody love a bit of Trek too - but I love The Orville more, recently for the reason you point out.

More nuance, and more complexity, more diversity of thought - which is where original Trek (and NG and DS9) kinda did their best.

Anyway getting off topic but I love your post. Would give 2x thumbs up.
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
You know what. That's exactly it. I bloody love a bit of Trek too - but I love The Orville more, recently for the reason you point out.

More nuance, and more complexity, more diversity of thought..
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Although with Trek it was imo, about being a good show. Messages were scattered about but huge numbers of viewers were too engrossed with the Klingons to even notice, and the people putting the messages in there probably saw it as a “we’re getting away with it” style victory.

I think RTD would see it as a failure.
 
8ball said:
Although with Trek it was imo, about being a good show. Messages were scattered about but huge numbers of viewers were too engrossed with the Klingons to even notice, and the people putting the messages in there probably saw it as a “we’re getting away with it” style victory.

I think RTD would see it as a failure.
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That's why it works in the Orville. There is messaging but it's so hidden between fucking awesome story and space lasers (plus, you can read into "the message" in multiple ways -I really like that kind of writing) that it's a joy to watch.
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
That's why it works in the Orville. There is messaging but it's so hidden between fucking awesome story and space lasers (plus, you can read into "the message" in multiple ways -I really like that kind of writing) that it's a joy to watch.
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Love The Orville.

What is the hidden messaging in it?
 
8ball said:
I’ve never seen the Orville but having you both recommend it here seems a good sign.

What channel / platform is it on?
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Disney.

Admittedly struggled with the first 3 or 4 episodes but it really does pick up and the excess and indulgence of MacFarlane's animated shows is mercifully toned down.

There's no hidden messaging in it, the show does social commentary and spins a good yarn without flinching.

Would be quite interesting to see MacFarlane tackle Doctor Who.
 
There are two episodes in this season that a frothing pub bore could call woke in terms of plot - Rogue, because of the gay romance element, and Dot and Bubble, due to the anti racist message. The first is hardly new to post 2005 Who and the second would find parallels in plenty of classic Who stories.

Perhaps where the bore might have slightly more of a point is in terms of on screen representation. The Unit scenes did feel like they'd been cast by a particularly tick boxy diversity consultant. There was no need or point for Rose to be there. It all felt pretty clunky and forced.
 
lazythursday said:
There are two episodes in this season that a frothing pub bore could call woke in terms of plot - Rogue, because of the gay romance element, and Dot and Bubble, due to the anti racist message. The first is hardly new to post 2005 Who and the second would find parallels in plenty of classic Who stories.

Perhaps where the bore might have slightly more of a point is in terms of on screen representation. The Unit scenes did feel like they'd been cast by a particularly tick boxy diversity consultant. There was no need or point for Rose to be there. It all felt pretty clunky and forced.
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Everything about Unit’s recruitment, vetting, security operations, information handling restrictions, list X building access, child labour and nepotism policies suggests that the organisation needs a radical overhaul and a change of leadership.
 
krtek a houby said:
Disney.

Admittedly struggled with the first 3 or 4 episodes but it really does pick up and the excess and indulgence of MacFarlane's animated shows is mercifully toned down.

There's no hidden messaging in it, the show does social commentary and spins a good yarn without flinching.

Would be quite interesting to see MacFarlane tackle Doctor Who.
Click to expand...

Never found much on Disney when perusing, but I am expected to be out of hospital tomorrow and have time to hoover anything good up. :)
 
lazythursday said:
There are two episodes in this season that a frothing pub bore could call woke in terms of plot - Rogue, because of the gay romance element, and Dot and Bubble, due to the anti racist message. The first is hardly new to post 2005 Who and the second would find parallels in plenty of classic Who stories.
Click to expand...
Nothing to do with what you're saying really but I think there is an issue with the Doctor that would be interesting to explore. Perhaps they touched on it a little with the difference in Ruby and the Doctor's reactions to the survivors racism. Ruby was horrified and felt for the Doctor. The Doctor seemed taken aback but still more concerned with saving their lives. How may his reaction have been different if he'd always had Ncuti Gutwa's body rather than an alien trying it on like a new suit?
 
CNT36 said:
Nothing to do with what you're saying really but I think there is an issue with the Doctor that would be interesting to explore. Perhaps they touched on it a little with the difference in Ruby and the Doctor's reactions to the survivors racism. Ruby was horrified and felt for the Doctor. The Doctor seemed taken aback but still more concerned with saving their lives. How may his reaction have been different if he'd always had Ncuti Gutwa's body rather than an alien trying it on like a new suit?
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Perhaps this is part of the broader awkward question about why the Doctor has such affection for humans, who are a fairly grim lot all told, and keeps returning to the planet to which he was so cruelly exiled.
 
krtek a houby said:
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is also there, which is to be recommended, if you haven't yet seen.

Hope you're feeling better.
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I thought that was on Netflix only. Don’t tell me there is a new season of it available on Disney.
krtek a houby said:
Disney.

Admittedly struggled with the first 3 or 4 episodes but it really does pick up and the excess and indulgence of MacFarlane's animated shows is mercifully toned down.

There's no hidden messaging in it, the show does social commentary and spins a good yarn without flinching.

Would be quite interesting to see MacFarlane tackle Doctor Who.
Click to expand...
S1 is a bit hit and miss (though I still enjoyed it), but for whatever reason MacFarlane had the good sense to tone down the goofiness from then on and make this a try homage to Star Trek whilst making a quality series of its one. I ended up enjoying it far more than the likes of Discovery.
 
I think you two might be speaking at cross purposes. Always Sunny in Philly is on Netflix. The Orville is on Disney. I have spoken.
 
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