Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I'll say one thing - it is important for people to remember that, regardless of the flat-out loonery and shit politics involved in the groups, there are plenty of people simply motivated by mistrust of the government/big pharma and the obvious hypocrisies, lies, corruption, and power grabs. They may be being given all sorts of misinformation and going in the wrong direction, but pretending everyone involved is just a barking conspiracist cannot possibly help. You don't get tens of thousands out on the streets who all believe satanic paedophiles run the world.
Yossarian
⏭️
It's not as simple as people versus the government though, is it?
It's people versus the virus, with capitalists pushing for businesses to stay open and thereby allowing the virus to spread, the incompetent government vacillating between opening and reopening and always reacting too late, the virus evolving to infect as many people as it can, and millions of people with varying beliefs on how serious the crisis is caught in the middle.
I see being in favour of measures to control the pandemic as being pro-NHS, not pro-Boris Johnson's government. In Hong Kong, which brought the pandemic under control faster than a lot of other places, the government didn't agree to measures like closing the border with mainland China until health workers went on strike.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It's also a mistake to mix in vaccination passports, lockdowns, other restrictions, etc. as a single thing. There's been plenty of concern expressed on here about vaccine passports for example. Lockdowns less so as they're just necessary, as evidenced by their use globally, them working, and a lack of an alternative.
If anything some of the best criticisms of the UK government is that they didn't enact a lockdown quickly enough, they prioritized capital and markets over people's lives, and their unwillingness led to thousands more deaths.
If anything some of the best criticisms of the UK government is that they didn't enact a lockdown quickly enough, they prioritized capital and markets over people's lives, and their unwillingness led to thousands more deaths.
tony.c
Well-Known Member
Like Johnson, Modi, Bolsonaro and Trump? Are they anti government oppression?
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Look out London - Bristol Lib Dems' own David Icke is on the way 
elbows
Well-Known Member
Exactly. The government were anti-lockdown, pro 'let everyone catch it at a certain pace' and its not clear they would have abandoned that position if they had got their push down on the curve' sums correct as opposed to getting it all wrong at the start and being forced into a series of giant u-turns.
I have no respect for people that cannot recognise an intense global public health emergency when they see one. I'd rather have been talking about how autonomous communities responded appropriately to the pandemic and did a wonderful job of shielding the people within those commnities from the virus and the economic fall-out. I lack examples of places that are ordered in that way. I would like the pandemic to destroy the status quo and provide impetus for total change, but in order to deal with the realities of the virus that would need to happen either very quickly at the start, or become a long-term driving force for such change, mostly coming into effect once the acute stages of the pandemic have passed. As opposed to farting around with rhetoric and tired positions that wont save anyone and actually end up reinforcing the old ways at a time where strong action is required to counter an immediate threat of death and healthcare system collapse. There is no point clinging to principals that are not going to come to fruition in time to save anyone in this pandemic.
The shadow of failed 20th century politics still looms large over both the mainstream, established order and those who have something else in mind. I would like to think this pandemic may accelerate a move away from the prison of the past, but there are relatively few signs of that so far, and no shortage of death caused by those whose cliched thinking doomed themselves or others to an early grave.
There are a wide range of counter narratives. Mine is sceptical about vaccine rollout when other important measures such as track and trance and you know shutting down air travel are total bullshit.
Weirdly people like my die hard tory BIL and full on charkra bothering hippy freinds are on the same page with a lot of this stuff namely focusing on their personal freedom
Weirdly people like my die hard tory BIL and full on charkra bothering hippy freinds are on the same page with a lot of this stuff namely focusing on their personal freedom
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
'Anti-lockdown types' That's more and more normal people.
Once again, speaks volumes.
Anyway, I'm outta here.
that was easy
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
It's not an homogenous crowd, but the cheerleaders I find dubious to say the least.
I don't particularly like lockdowns/restrictions and working mostly in entertainment most of my work has gone, it has also brought the demise of an alternative space I was involved in. But all this I can accept due to the pandemic and the potential for major chaos if left unckecked.
Vaccine passports is a weird one, on an international level you cannot blame countries for wanting to protect their population and I still have one for yellow fever, on a national level I can see where this is a problem with creating a multi "class"/tiered situation, especially as not everyone owns/wants a smartphone and this seems to be the way they wold go for this.
Some friend I spoke with starting with finding lockdown really hard as he lives on his own and is a msic tacher, but along the way he bought a whole lot of dodgy theories and find no issues with walking alongside nasty right wing elements, so I just ignore him now when he spouts this. Another is worried about potential long term issues with vaccines which is fair enough, but she doesn't have to have it; then she keeps sending spreadsheets of death numbers from the government saying: read it and see, but not exactly telling me what she sees in it; am still trying to engage in discussion but not sure this will happen now.
Folk have always had these kinds of views obviously. That's a fairly bland claim, but nowadays, and amid a rising tide of media presence, we have actual media concerns dedicated to signal boosting this crap. Once upon a twat it was a barstool crank. Now it's a well financed operation dedicated to sifting out the truth and replacing it with ideology. I speak of Talk Radio or LBC etc. As well as the panoply of equally well funded social media manipulators. Most of whom are also utterly racist and sexist, for example the likes of Steven Crowder, Stefan Molyneux (a literal cultist), Carl Benjamin and his creepy scottish homunculus, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon etc. This increased media is gaslighting on an industrial scale and it is increasingly tough living in a society where this happens.
Look out London - Bristol Lib Dems' own David Icke is on the way
Apparently when you're young this man, a 'den-tist sticks needles in your mouth and then proceeds to yank out your teeth! I couldn't believe it!
Other people force children to perch these weird frames on their noses, making them look through clear shaped plastic just so they can see things! It's not right!
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
For decades he was a GP
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Yes, this. Proper horror show. Frightening etc
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
I smell a best-selling update of the hoary old work mug
fires up Redbubble account
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Encourage anyone to hunt this stuff down on Facebook and actually get a feel for it. You will get the creeping feeling that there is something deeply pathological at the core of it. This is not like a debate between a mail reader and a guardian reader talking about say state benefits (which is an unpleasant experience in itself), rather it's a sort 9f matrix of just utter derangement. For example to a lot of them any major celebrity is part of peadiphillia. Or that children are being harvested. This sort of thinking is not the entirety but its just as much as there as its not, anecdotally. Luckily Facebook have all but got rid of the groups I used to spie on. I would finish reading and felt helpless that this stuff was emerging. In fact that was one of the reasons I rejoined here. My best mate is still travelling down the rabbit hole as we speak and nearly all his mates have cut him off. He texted one of the last standing the other day "if you inject that poison into your blood I will never speak to you again."
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
They tend to let these events happen, and only go in heavy handed in the evening if people don't clear off home.
Anyway, here's a live stream of the protest today -
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
The Turd Whisperer is there too
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Because we give a shit as already mentioned, more than about just ourselves
Conscious about the whole and wider society not just us and our personal wants
Not hard to grasp is it?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I did consider going down to take pictures at the rally today but then remembered that I was a bit hungover anyway and would prefer to sit in the sun outside a pub drinking beer.
Griff
Hardly posting anymore
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Do you think rebelling against a virus works?Thanks for your reply
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Vaccinations aren't mandatory are they? do you think countries and businesses should be able to retain the rights to who they let in and serve?
What censprship?
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
The anti lockdown/anti mask people think they know better or it's all lies whilst the virus has killed 100,000's of people
They don't see that or won't accept it (the results of the virus), they just want to do what they want when they want, like spoilt children
They don't see that or won't accept it (the results of the virus), they just want to do what they want when they want, like spoilt children
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