Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[platinumsage]

Apparently the slogan “Build Back Better” is now taking off along with the phrase “Great Reset” as a sign of our imminent enslavement in a global fascist dictatorship.

'Great Reset' conspiracy theory takes Twitter by storm after Trudeau's speech on COVID-19

The re-emergence of a popular expression used in discourse by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has online media clients scrambling to look into the World Economic Forum's "Great Reset," recently excused by some as a mere conspiracy theory. An extract of an ongoing Trudeau discourse posted...

www.wionews.com

 

[elbows]

Apparently the slogan “Build Back Better” is now taking off along with the phrase “Great Reset” as a sign of our imminent enslavement in a global fascist dictatorship.

'Great Reset' conspiracy theory takes Twitter by storm after Trudeau's speech on COVID-19

The re-emergence of a popular expression used in discourse by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has online media clients scrambling to look into the World Economic Forum's "Great Reset," recently excused by some as a mere conspiracy theory. An extract of an ongoing Trudeau discourse posted...

www.wionews.com

In my book the non-nutty version of that stuff would be the ways that post-pandemic recovery, and rather major issues of the century that were already in play such as problems with globalisation, neoliberalism, capitalism and wealth distribution, climate, energy, pollution, combine and interact in the decades ahead. Including questions about whether democratic facades will survive all periods of transition. But then I would say that because those are the themes I decided to concentrate my expectations on this century. I hope to avoid too many discussions on those subjects with those who require the crazy larger than life comic-book version of events in order to pay attention, but I somehow doubt I'll be able to avoid that at moments where big events unfold.

 

[Lurdan]

So if that’s the same survey (and I think it is), there may have been others answering the way I did, not through anti vaxx sentiment, but the form and context of the question asked.

The point of interest in the article for me wasn't that it cited that survey but the broad overview of anti-covid vaxx ideas it contained.

Personally I regard polling in general with a great deal of scepticism and I agree that one isn't a reliable indicator of how many people might refuse vaccination. That being said I note today's announcement of a vaccine being approved immediately led to the hashtags #thalidomide and #Bill Gates trending.

In part of course this was due to people leaping in denounce the underlying stupidity. But I think it would be foolish to assume that the combination of conspiralunacy, more rational forms of 'being concerned' and apathy won't have an effect on vaccine take up. It's only necessary to look back to the reemergence of measles following the MMR scare. No way of judging how great an effect however.

 

[danny la rouge]

The point of interest in the article for me wasn't that it cited that survey but the broad overview of anti-covid vaxx ideas it contained.

Personally I regard polling in general with a great deal of scepticism and I agree that one isn't a reliable indicator of how many people might refuse vaccination. That being said I note today's announcement of a vaccine being approved immediately led to the hashtags #thalidomide and #Bill Gates trending.

In part of course this was due to people leaping in denounce the underlying stupidity. But I think it would be foolish to assume that the combination of conspiralunacy, more rational forms of 'being concerned' and apathy won't have an effect on vaccine take up. It's only necessary to look back to the reemergence of measles following the MMR scare. No way of judging how great an effect however.

You’re right, it is an interesting article. I even tried their app on the strength of it (but it was buggy and sluggish and I deleted after 30 mins. But will consider if they do more work on it).

 

[souljacker]

Apparently the slogan “Build Back Better” is now taking off along with the phrase “Great Reset” as a sign of our imminent enslavement in a global fascist dictatorship.

'Great Reset' conspiracy theory takes Twitter by storm after Trudeau's speech on COVID-19

The re-emergence of a popular expression used in discourse by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has online media clients scrambling to look into the World Economic Forum's "Great Reset," recently excused by some as a mere conspiracy theory. An extract of an ongoing Trudeau discourse posted...

www.wionews.com

This all ties in with the Agenda 21/30 stuff too and weird articles like Ida Auken's "Welcome to 2030, I own nothing" thing. Which, as we all know, was written 4 years before the pandemic, therefore, it was planned and the WEF knew all about it.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Apparently the slogan “Build Back Better” is now taking off along with the phrase “Great Reset” as a sign of our imminent enslavement in a global fascist dictatorship.

'Great Reset' conspiracy theory takes Twitter by storm after Trudeau's speech on COVID-19

The re-emergence of a popular expression used in discourse by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has online media clients scrambling to look into the World Economic Forum's "Great Reset," recently excused by some as a mere conspiracy theory. An extract of an ongoing Trudeau discourse posted...

www.wionews.com

That link is to one of those mad ripoff sites that scrape actual news sites, then have bots do a search and replace with synonyms to avoid copyright issues, leading to nonsense paragraphs like:

"Working back better methods offering to back to the most defenseless while keeping up our energy on arriving at the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development and the [Sustainable Development Goals]," the PM stated, referring to the UN's Agenda 2030, another bête noire of intrigue specialists who trust it speaks to the plan for worldwide authoritarian government.

 

[gosub]

Apparently the slogan “Build Back Better” is now taking off along with the phrase “Great Reset” as a sign of our imminent enslavement in a global fascist dictatorship.

'Great Reset' conspiracy theory takes Twitter by storm after Trudeau's speech on COVID-19

The re-emergence of a popular expression used in discourse by Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has online media clients scrambling to look into the World Economic Forum's "Great Reset," recently excused by some as a mere conspiracy theory. An extract of an ongoing Trudeau discourse posted...

www.wionews.com

Actually had an in person argument with someone yesterday about this.

 

[8ball]

That link is to one of those mad ripoff sites that scrape actual news sites, then have bots do a search and replace with synonyms to avoid copyright issues, leading to nonsense paragraphs like:

Yeah, it’s pretty bad. Also really easy to trace the original article, so not sure how long they’ll get away with it for.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Facebook to ban anti-vaxx conspiracy theories

False claims that the vaccine contains microchips or is being tested on people without their consent will be removed

www.independent.co.uk

 

[editor]

Facebook to ban anti-vaxx conspiracy theories

False claims that the vaccine contains microchips or is being tested on people without their consent will be removed

www.independent.co.uk

Facebook should be held criminally responsible for their lack of action. People will die because of the dangerous batshit their company has helped promote and made money from.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I tend not to bother with these loons, but there's a pirate radio message board that used to be good, sadly all the decent posters have moved on, because loons started to take over, the chief one is a massive conspiraloon and a bloody mod.

He's one of those classic nutters that tells everyone to do their own research, so I do, I just can't resit calling him out.

I am posting it here, because these are two pieces of 'truth' currently being spread across social media platforms.

He posted this link - http://www.stoppfizer.org/

Some of the exchange thereafter.

That link is a petition from the disgraced Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg, suspended from 'Transparency International Germany', due to his opinions and his use of radical media that "regularly work with conspiracy theories, with anti-democratic and sometimes anti-Semitic prejudices" and "oppose the basic democratic principles of Transparency".

Co-signed by the debunked Dr. Michael Yeadon, a former employee of Pfizer, who claimed the pandemic was over in the UK, just as the second wave was hitting us.

Proper pair of nutters

Anyway the total number of Covid Deaths in Liverpool area for the whole period between Feb and Nov 2020, 5 (FIVE)who all had underlying major health problems.

"Between 26 November - 02 December 2020 there were 116 registered deaths in Liverpool, of which 23% (n=27) were COVID-19 deaths."

27 Covid deaths in a single week, just in Liverpool itself and not the wider region.

Coronavirus cases by area

Not according to the Merseyside NHS Trusts' own official figures.

Oh dear, Geoff, you are quoting the figure from the 'Mersey Care NHS Foundation', they provide mental health, addiction, learning disability and community health services, so are not involved in treating those seriously ill with Covid-19.

No wonder you didn't provide a link.

-----
Mersey Care told us that it was a genuine FOI response, saying: “The figures in the FOI response relate to patients in Mersey Care NHS Foundation Trust, they do not represent figures for the whole of the Liverpool or Merseyside area.”

This trust doesn’t provide services like its own Accident & Emergency units, respiratory wards, or intensive care units, or other services that we would expect to treat seriously ill Covid-19 patients.

Other NHS trusts in the Merseyside area that do provide these types of service have seen many more Covid-19 deaths. For example, Liverpool University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust (which runs hospitals including Royal Liverpool, Aintree and Broadgreen) has recorded 928 deaths from Covid-19 as of 2 December.

-----

They give an example of just ONE trust that has had 928 deaths from Covid-19, the total for the region will be many times that.

A classic example of why spreading false claims is dangerous.

Mersey Care has only had five Covid-19 deaths because it is a mental health and disability services trust

What a bloody plonker .

 

[cupid_stunt]

I seen to have rattled him.

Simon, stick your full fact (another government funded quango)where the sun don't shine, and your holier than thou "i know everything" attitude, in the same place.

Why don't you join up with the 14,000 strong civil servant team, working so hard for their Government puppet masters, or maybe a volunteer for the 77th Army Regiment or the 13th Signals Division, that would be right up your street.

The loon factor is strong.

It's your holier than thou "I know everything" attitude, that gets me to respond.

Anyway, you seem rattled now, so I'll leave you to it.

Anyone reading this exchange can form their own opinion on what is true, and what is false.

 

[Roadkill]

I must admit, I've been toying with the idea of going into battle with assorted Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers and other morons on BTL comments on my local newspaper. Someone talk me out of it...

 

[DaveCinzano]

I must admit, I've been toying with the idea of going into battle with assorted Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers and other morons on BTL comments on my local newspaper. Someone talk me out of it...

Outmanoeuvre them by channeling some weapons-grade Rowena

 

[cupid_stunt]

I must admit, I've been toying with the idea of going into battle with assorted Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers and other morons on BTL comments on my local newspaper. Someone talk me out of it...

The trouble is, if there's loads of them, it takes a lot of time to deal with them, although this message boards has plenty of loons, the only actual conspiraloon appears to be this mod.

He banned me last month, but one of the other mods lifted the ban, so I got to play again.

I bet longdog is having lots of fun with these people.

 

[Shechemite]

You won’t convince them.

 

[StoneRoad]

You won’t convince them.

Agreed.

But, you might influence someone who isn't quite as invested in the loospuddery to see what is the real world. Unlikely, but you might.

 

[sojourner]

I must admit, I've been toying with the idea of going into battle with assorted Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers and other morons on BTL comments on my local newspaper. Someone talk me out of it...

It's ultimately soul destroying, and a fucking MASSIVE waste of your mental energy. I tried it with various folk on FB, and even enjoyed it for a while, but it's so circular that you'll get bored of it before they do. You cannot use normal scientific theory to argue with them, they won't have it. It's like arguing with a 2 year old.

 

[sojourner]

But, you might influence someone who isn't quite as invested in the loospuddery to see what is the real world. Unlikely, but you might.

You won't. Once they've got the nerve up to publicly say anything at all about it, they're already too far gone.

 

[Roadkill]

It's ultimately soul destroying, and a fucking MASSIVE waste of your mental energy. I tried it with various folk on FB, and even enjoyed it for a while, but it's so circular that you'll get bored of it before they do. You cannot use normal scientific theory to argue with them, they won't have it. It's like arguing with a 2 year old.

I know. It'd just be a big exercise in this, wouldn't it:

Tbh I wouldn't do it with any hope of arguing around those who are invested in it, but more in hope of influencing anyone reading their bullshit.

 

[sojourner]

I know. It'd just be a big exercise in this, wouldn't it:

Tbh I wouldn't do it with any hope of arguing around those who are invested in it, but more in hope of influencing anyone reading their bullshit.

Yup.

I think some people are just more likely to be swayed that way. You could give it a go if you like, but it will drive you mad.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

But of enough of us are prepared to tag team that work, do a bit each, then maybe it will accumulate to something useful.

As I said before, it’s pointless going onto the rabbit hole to try to pull anyone out, but I’m prepared to try to keep the rope ladder at the edge in good repair, in the hope that someone at risk of falling in - or who has the possible urge to climb out - has something to grab hold of.

 

[Ax^]

has been down enough rabbit holes and used to get pleasure from ripping into the more loonspud elements of the interwebs about 10 years ago


it really is a action related to banging you head against a brick wall

even if you provide the evidence. you got to remember more than half of the people involved are not true believers
they just think it a gas to be controversial

some people never moved on from the edge lord bullshite

 

[SheilaNaGig]

has been down enough rabbit holes and used to get pleasure from ripping into the more loonspud elements of the interwebs about 10 years ago


it really is a action related to banging you head against a brick wall

even if you provide the evidence. you got to remember more than half of the people involved are not true believers
they just think it a gas to be controversial

some people never moved on from the edge lord bullshite

Yeah, fuck them.

The proselytisers and evangelists can fuck off all day long.

And I don’t much care for those who are stubbornly insistent about turning their face to the wall either. They can rot in their own worries.

But (some of) those who say “A lot of people are saying... I’ve heard.... but what about....” are still turning things over in their minds, and I think it’s worth the effort to add in alternatives for them to think about.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I’m not seeking out these conversations. I’m not getting stuck into forum debates, I’ve signed off Facebook for the duration. But whenever someone asks me what I think, I’ll definitely use that as a lever for opening up the possibility that they’re misinformed and need to take another look.


I really hate the way this has settled into and Them vs Us situation. I hate this polarisation.

 

[Ax^]

aye but as i found out with some family members this year

it was a question of "you cannot question my beliefs"

sorry its not a religion its shit you watched and researched on Facebook and fucking YouTube

 

[cupid_stunt]

You won’t convince them.

Totally true, in my case I am not trying to convince him, I am just exposing his misinformation for causal readers that could start believing his bullshit, if it's not countered with facts.

The fact that he hates me doing it, and tries to silence me with a ban, is just an added bonus.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

aye but as i found out with some family members this year

it was a question of "you cannot question my beliefs"

sorry its not a religion its shit you watched and researched on Facebook and fucking YouTube

I’m very lucky that no one close to me has fallen down this rabbit hole.

Like you, there are several on here who’ve not been so fortunate, and have spoken about how upsetting and difficult that is.

I’m not sure what I’d do or say if someone close to me had jumped off the edge of reason.

 

[WouldBe]

I must admit, I've been toying with the idea of going into battle with assorted Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers and other morons on BTL comments on my local newspaper. Someone talk me out of it...

Go on Go on Go on Go on Go on Go on Go on. You know you want to even if only to kill an hour.

 

[Roadkill]

Go on Go on Go on Go on Go on Go on Go on. You know you want to even if only to kill an hour.

I said talk me out of it! Killing time is one thing; killing brain cells arguing with idiots is another!