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Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

Yes definitely. I think there's a continuum there isn't there rather than a pro/anti lockdown split. At any point since last March you could probably make a case that stricter lockdowns would have been beneficial in some ways but I don't think many of us are sitting here thinking that the peak lockdown rules should have applied for the duration. I'm certainly not and I don't think I'd still be sticking to them if they were, and I doubt anyone would see me as an 'anti-lockdown' person. So there's definitely much more room for debate there, it's not the same as the full-on anti-vax stuff.

i hear debates at work all teh time - if we're all jabbed and we're still locking down, what's the point? or "i think everyone is over playing it a bit, everyone should just be allowed to get on with it" or "they should think about the effect on the economy more." i can and will have that discussion with anyone. it's normal and healthy to have any reality-based discourse.

all of which doesn't have that key hidden premise "theres evil out there trying to do something evil." how many anti vaxxers etc have that hidden premise. a lot, from my own anecdotal assumptions. a lot.
 
Yeah, we'd do well to remember that it's not one homogeneous anti-stuff constituency out there. And there is at least some kind of rationality around the anti-lockdown argument, even if it's not my rationality. The same can't really be said for the anti-vaxxers.
I can understand some of the anti lockdown arguments, but then when they turn up on a march full of mask-free anti-vaxx idiots banging on about Bill Gates, Pizzagate, 5G and all the other codswallop, they can hardly complain if they find themselves being lumped in together with them all.
 
Yes definitely. I think there's a continuum there isn't there rather than a pro/anti lockdown split. At any point since last March you could probably make a case that stricter lockdowns would have been beneficial in some ways but I don't think many of us are sitting here thinking that the peak lockdown rules should have applied for the duration. I'm certainly not and I don't think I'd still be sticking to them if they were, and I doubt anyone would see me as an 'anti-lockdown' person. So there's definitely much more room for debate there, it's not the same as the full-on anti-vax stuff.
Even nations that pursued a 'zero covid' approach did not endure a permanent state of lockdown. Indeed their intense measures often lasted for shorter periods of time, although the will to bring them in at the right time was certainly required.
 
like that tory mp asking whitty about whether cancer patients were being knocked further back because of covid.

i think it was a perfectly valid and useful question to ask, but i think it was put in this thread. that's exactly the sort of questions that should be asked. it's a question that's blanks can be filled in with reality. where as some of the questions he gets asked he must want to tilt his head and say what the fuck you talking about bro?
 
like that tory mp asking whitty about whether cancer patients were being knocked further back because of covid.

i think it was a perfectly valid and useful question to ask, but i think it was put in this thread. that's exactly the sort of questions that should be asked. it's a question that's blanks can be filled in with reality. where as some of the questions he gets asked he must want to tilt his head and say what the fuck you talking about bro?
No, I put it in the main UK thread. And Whitty didnt like the question because it was framed as 'prioritising covid over other things'.
 
Yeah, think it probably folded decades ago.

Not that long ago, it was still around when a moved here.

A quick look on google, takes me to this 2012 post from our town crier, good old Bob. :thumbs:



DO NOT click on the eco-action link, I did, it's some French site offering me the chance of finding out 'where can I find menstrual panties in the store', not what I was expecting TBH. :D
 
Yes definitely. I think there's a continuum there isn't there rather than a pro/anti lockdown split. At any point since last March you could probably make a case that stricter lockdowns would have been beneficial in some ways but I don't think many of us are sitting here thinking that the peak lockdown rules should have applied for the duration. I'm certainly not and I don't think I'd still be sticking to them if they were, and I doubt anyone would see me as an 'anti-lockdown' person. So there's definitely much more room for debate there, it's not the same as the full-on anti-vax stuff.
Im not completely sold on a full lockdown tbh although I think more restrictions should probably be brought in.
 
Im not completely sold on a full lockdown tbh although I think more restrictions should probably be brought in.
SAGE and the universities involved with feeding stuff into SAGE have tended to look at Omicron response options that are equivalent to going back to one of the earlier spring steps out of lockdown, rather than all the way back to full lockdown, before the first of those easing steps was taken.

Here are those steps as described much earlier in 2021:

 
I'm in the process of editing a bit of writing that's about the cholera epidemic of that era and similarities with today, and the 'conspiracy stuff' was widespread back then, and not without some justification. Here's an excerpt...

"Today these would be called conspiracy theories, but in 1831-2 they have significant basis in fact. In late 1824 two Liverpool men, convicted of digging up bodies for dissection, are defended by a prominent doctor Rathbone.⁠ In October 1826, the Liverpool Mercury describes in an article called ‘Wholesale Resurrectionists’ the discovery of thirty-three dead bodies, eleven in casks labelled ‘Bitter Salts’ on the Liverpool docks, awaiting shipment to Scotland, and more, including those of babies, in a cellar under a school. In November, the Liverpool Mercury reports ‘Another Discovery of Dead Bodies’ in similar circumstances. In 1827 in Liverpool Dr. William Gill is tried for possessing bodies stolen from a cemetery. In 1828 two Irish immigrants in Edinburgh are found to have murdered sixteen people to supply Dr Robert Knox with cadavers for his anatomy lectures. One of the Irishmen, Burke, is hanged; the doctor is not prosecuted. In 1832 the Medical Gazette reports the sale of cholera bodies “on an industrial scale” in London for medical training. The population is religious, and believes in the sanctity of the body and Christian burial. Confronted with these ‘anatomy riots’, the medical establishment defends exhumation of corpses on scientific grounds."
Again, very slowly catching up with old bits of this thread, but if you're still working on that editing, or even if you're not, you might find this interesting (I think the whole thing's great, but other people's tastes may differ):
In the 1830s, cholera spread rapidly around the globe, moving along trade routes. Frederich Engels described the approach of the acute bacterial infection to Manchester as ‘a universal terror seizing bourgeoisie of the city’. Something was coming.


By June 1832, cholera was with the people of Manchester, but so was the promise of a new kind of democracy. The surgeon Samuel Gaskell, Esq. makes the observation that:

‘On the 9th of August the working classes were allowed a general holiday to celebrate the passing of the Reform Bill; this led to much intoxication and exposure to night air. In a few days after this holiday the number of cases became greatly augmented.’


Gaskell attributes the swift and fatal spread of the illness upon the pauper body to public revelry. Here was evidence of social ineptitude, overexposure, inattention, rather than, as Engels himself argued, the cramped tenement conditions in which the working classes lived and worked, in an increasingly industrial world.


When is public space dangerous? And for whom? What spreads, and what halts the passing of a thing, mouth to mouth, hand to hand, chest to chest?

These questions are not easily answered. Where once stood a workhouse now stands a poorly-lit designer boutique: elongated grey plastic mannequins display urbanely shredded clothes, price available upon request...

The 1832 Reform Act coincided with the introduction of the Anatomy Act. The state’s response to the cholera epidemic seemed to typify the elites’ attitudes to the value of the working classes, upon whom the burden of the infection rested. Middle class cholera victims were treated at home, but working class victims were transported to cholera hospitals by cart, where visitors were banned.

2 September, 1832. A crowd of three thousand protesters gathered in the streets. A four-year-old boy had entered the hospital alive. Later, he was dead, buried. The boy’s grandfather was suspicious. He insisted on inspecting the contents of the coffin. Where the boy’s head should have been there was a brick. The boy, claimed protesters, had been ‘burked’ by surgeons who wanted his body for dissection.

To burke is to murder by smothering, for sale onto a black market that traded in corpses. To extinguish, covertly, without leaving any marks upon the victim’s body.

The crowd surged, carrying the boy’s headless body, through the main streets of Manchester to attack the cholera hospital on Swan Street. Police with cutlasses could not disperse the riots. Protesters smashed through windows and tore down the hospital wall.
Anyway, pieces of writing about the cholera epidemic of the 1830s are like buses, you wait ages for one and then etc etc.
 
Not that long ago, it was still around when a moved here.

A quick look on google, takes me to this 2012 post from our town crier, good old Bob. :thumbs:



DO NOT click on the eco-action link, I did, it's some French site offering me the chance of finding out 'where can I find menstrual panties in the store', not what I was expecting TBH. :D


Not that long ago, it was still around when a moved here.

A quick look on google, takes me to this 2012 post from our town crier, good old Bob. :thumbs:



DO NOT click on the eco-action link, I did, it's some French site offering me the chance of finding out 'where can I find menstrual panties in the store', not what I was expecting TBH. :D

Archived:

 
For fans of Italian philosopher beef, Donatella di Cesare just released a new Agamben diss:

The time had come for Agamben to acknowledge outright: “I made an interpretative error, because the pandemic is not an invention.” But Agamben never rectified his error.

His posts continued until July 2020 in the same vein. As news of his developing denialism spread abroad, I read his embarrassing texts convinced that the nightmare would soon be over. But it wasn’t. His posts have become the subject of two books and the ‘voice’ of the blog has continued with its prognosis, reaching its lowest point with two interventions of July 2021 — “Second Class citizens” and “Green Pass” — where the Green Pass was obscenely likened to the yellow star. This gave significant succour to the worst of the anti-vax movement, intellectually and philosophically legitimizing them...

As is known, Agamben has found himself on the right, or rather the ultra-right, with a following consisting of anti-vaxxers and those against the Green Pass. From time-to-time he has even lashed out against those on the left who defended the vaccination plan. It does not seem to me, however, that in these two years has expended a word for the riots in prisons, for the elderly decimated in the nursing homes, for the homeless abandoned in the city, for those left suddenly without work, for the delivery riders, the laborers, and the invisible. I would have expected, from the philosopher who made us reflect on ‘bare life,’ an appeal for the migrants who are brutalized, rejected, and left to die at the European borders. Indeed, an initiative that, with his authority, would have had certain weight. But there has been none of that.
 
DO NOT click on the eco-action link, I did, it's some French site offering me the chance of finding out 'where can I find menstrual panties in the store', not what I was expecting TBH. :D
It's wild how that domain name has gone from an ecological action site to a French site selling panties, and that's still a more dignified career trajectory than the person who apparently used to post there.
 
My pro-vaccine Paltalk room has now attracted a 35 year old Indian guy who is patently living with untreated paranoid schizophrenia - claims medical implants are beaming his thoughts to the people around him who act out scenes from Hollywood and Bollywood movies he escapes into - but always with a negative spin ... (i.e projection)
Curiously he doesn't APPEAR to have rejected vaccination or be unduly worried - but I'm still steering him towards learning basic biology - and who knows radio technology as a form of self-empowerment .

So I now have TWO psych patients - I may have to change my room name and start charging ...

Apart from them, just a fundie loonie this morning popped-in to tell me that covid is in the Bible..

They have a room called :-
The vaccine is the Mark of the Beast lets pray for everyone vaccinated
 
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Sorry, where are we discussing the ongoing assault on Chris Whitty trial? It must be somewhere and it should be here as the defendant is doing a fucking good job of making the covid deniers (of which he says he is not one) and even the FotLers look relatively sane.

 
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