Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[existentialist]

while no doubt loads are in pain and terror, I think it’s a disservice to the mentally ill to put some of these selfish arseholes in the same breath. I’ve suffered from depression a few times and never thought to flagrantly not give a fuck about the health of my community

I find that it helps, in general, to take a less judgemental and more compassionate approach to these people, if only because it's a lot less stressful to me to take that position. Sure, if someone gets in my face, or directly threatens me, there's going to be a point where the compassion will rapidly expire, and I'll deal with it directly. But when it's just idiots having stupid views, it's generally more psychologically healthy to take a step back from getting too emotionally entangled with it all.

 

[LDC]

My stepmother is reckoned by the family to be suffering from paranoia, but she's never seen any sort of doctor about it as far as I know. She thinks MI5 are spying on her. Won't turn on the TV because MI5 can use it as a camera to look at her. Convinced that the postman and neighbours are in on it. Her daughter, my half-sister, is reckoned by me to be paranoid about misogyny. She sees it when it's not there. Has completely irrational responses to innocent remarks and explodes with anger. She's had a series of bitter fallouts, six that I know of, including two of her oldest and best friends, who she used to adore, plus three neighbours, and me. Her fallout with me was followed by two years of silence, then justified by saying that it was my fault and I had it coming to me, but she regretted that I'd been hurt by it. She's had treatment for depression in the past. She used to do coke on nights out. She says she's changed a lot, but frames it as personal growth, 'not taking any shit any more'. Some of her friends can't deal with it, 'but that's their problem'. I doubt she'll ever have any insight into whatever is wrong, or ask for treatment. I used to think of her as my best friend, but now I view her as a sort of cross between an alien and a hand grenade. She's a stranger to me. Her true personality doesn't really exist for me any more. I go along with a superficial, polite friendship for the sake of my brother and his kids.

How old is she? Has she been assessed for MH issues, dementia and similar?

 

[gentlegreen]

.

 

[existentialist]

My stepmother is reckoned by the family to be suffering from paranoia, but she's never seen any sort of doctor about it as far as I know. She thinks MI5 are spying on her. Won't turn on the TV because MI5 can use it as a camera to look at her. Convinced that the postman and neighbours are in on it. Her daughter, my half-sister, is reckoned by me to be paranoid about misogyny. She sees it when it's not there. Has completely irrational responses to innocent remarks and explodes with anger. She's had a series of bitter fallouts, six that I know of, including two of her oldest and best friends, who she used to adore, plus three neighbours, and me. Her fallout with me was followed by two years of silence, then justified by saying that it was my fault and I had it coming to me, but she regretted that I'd been hurt by it. She's had treatment for depression in the past. She used to do coke on nights out. She says she's changed a lot, but frames it as personal growth, 'not taking any shit any more'. Some of her friends can't deal with it, 'but that's their problem'. I doubt she'll ever have any insight into whatever is wrong, or ask for treatment. I used to think of her as my best friend, but now I view her as a sort of cross between an alien and a hand grenade. She's a stranger to me. Her true personality doesn't really exist for me any more. I go along with a superficial, polite friendship for the sake of my brother and his kids.

FWIW, "paranoia" is not as such a diagnosable condition, so much as a symptom of a number of other conditions. As LynnDoyleCooper suggests, she'd be far better off being assessed by MH professionals to identify any underlying condition.

 

[elbows]

All the same a very well known form of paranoid ideation is being described there.

Very much including paranoid ideation without psychosis, which can be associated with rather a lot of conditions such as certain forms of depression.

 

[existentialist]

All the same a very well known form of paranoid ideation is being described there.

Oh, absolutely. But it's going to be a feature of some broader underlying condition, the most obvious of which would be some kind of psychotic disorder, like schizophrenia.

 

[elbows]

Well thats where all the study of detail comes in, the persons history, figuring out whether it actually counts as involving psychosis or not, whether it could be described as part of a personality disorder, or whether its an outcome of something slightly simpler such as depression that people are less familiar with associating with paranoia than they are at associating schizophrenia with it.

 

[David Clapson]

I've read about paranoia on the Mind site. But I've not found a diagnosis which fits what I know about my sister. Maybe that's because she has lots of thoughts that I'm unaware of. My gut feel is that she's well on the way to a paranoid personality disorder https://www.mind.org.uk/information...onality-disorder/#ParanoidPersonalityDisorder But it's all a bit academic if I can't help her or steer her towards treatment. She seems very bullish about life, so sometimes I think she's aware of a problem but won't admit it to herself. If I were to raise the subject I think she'd just attack me again. And last time she was shockingly vicious and cruel. I don't want another two years of licking my wounds.

eta: actually I've just had one of those 'light bulb goes on over your head' moments. Here's something from Mind which fits my sister: "delusional disorder (persecutory type) – a type of psychosis where you have one main delusion related to being harmed by others". She thinks that other people's misogyny is often something which, wittingly or unwittingly, undermines her career. And her mother's constant refrain was that the world and everything in it were against her. Unfortunately my sister works in a ruthless industry where people are often trying to undermine each other, and a lot of the players are notoriously misogynist men.

 

[Clair De Lune]

I find that it helps, in general, to take a less judgemental and more compassionate approach to these people, if only because it's a lot less stressful to me to take that position. Sure, if someone gets in my face, or directly threatens me, there's going to be a point where the compassion will rapidly expire, and I'll deal with it directly. But when it's just idiots having stupid views, it's generally more psychologically healthy to take a step back from getting too emotionally entangled with it all.

Sad you're leaving urban mate

 

[editor]

while no doubt loads are in pain and terror, I think it’s a disservice to the mentally ill to put some of these selfish arseholes in the same breath. I’ve suffered from depression a few times and never thought to flagrantly not give a fuck about the health of my community

Exactly.

 

[David Clapson]

FFS. Every mental illness is an illness. What's wrong with you people? The above nonsense from Big Moaner about depression belongs on GB News or the Daily Mail comments section. No wonder this board has become such a cesspit if the editor agrees with it.

 

[David Clapson]

How old is she? Has she been assessed for MH issues, dementia and similar?

You mean my stepmother? She's early seventies. Never been assessed for any MH things as far as I know, and shows no signs of dementia. Very fit and active.

 

[BigMoaner]

FFS. Every mental illness is an illness. What's wrong with you people? The above nonsense from Big Moaner about depression belongs on GB News or the Daily Mail comments section. No wonder this board has become such a cesspit if the editor agrees with it.

FFS. Every mental illness is an illness. What's wrong with you people? The above nonsense from Big Moaner about depression belongs on GB News or the Daily Mail comments section. No wonder this board has become such a cesspit if the editor agrees with it.

All I was saying was that depression is one thing, not giving a fuck about COVID and putting people at risk over and over due to strange conspiracy beliefs is another. Warning against just writing this phenomenon off as crazy or mental illness when some are just down right anti social.

 

[existentialist]

FFS. Every mental illness is an illness.

It's nowhere near as simplistic as that.

 

[8ball]

All I was saying was that depression is one thing, not giving a fuck about COVID and putting people at risk over and over due to strange conspiracy beliefs is another. Warning against just writing this phenomenon off as crazy or mental illness when some are just down right anti social.

I think in a lot of cases it's neither of those things.
It's a weakness of character in the face of harsh uncertainties, which some flee from in favour of a grand plot that they have an important role in thwarting.

 

[BigMoaner]

I think in a lot of cases it's neither of those things.
It's a weakness of character in the face of harsh uncertainties, which some flee from in favour of a grand plot that they have an important role in thwarting.

yes a multitude. no two alike. some will be mentally ill, some will be suffering fear and paranoia, some are just so narcistic the idea of solidarity or concern for wider community is just a non starter, some lonely and have found meaning, some psychopathic, some just not thinking shit through, etc etc etc etc. and then beyond the macro you have the larger forces like deprivation, lack of education, family trauma, etc etc. like all things can't be reduced to just one cause or type.

 

[krtek a houby]

FFS. Every mental illness is an illness. What's wrong with you people? The above nonsense from Big Moaner about depression belongs on GB News or the Daily Mail comments section. No wonder this board has become such a cesspit if the editor agrees with it.

Lol

 

[keybored]

 

[BigMoaner]

View attachment 301029

bonkers, love it. love the c bomb

 

[NoXion]

A lack of any kind of analysis that better explains global power dynamics with a huge dollop of narcissism as being bestowed with secret knowledge. They probably like Sci-Fi.

It's funny when people say shit like this, because in my own experience a lot of science fiction fans look down on the tinfoil hat brigade. I think you might be confused by the fact that conspiracy theorists nowadays like to incorporate the technological trappings of science fiction into their screeds (nanotechnology seems a favourite, because it can be invisible to the unaided eye and thus could be anywhere, perfect fuel for the paranoid!), while abandoning the pro-scientific ethos exhibited by many creators and thus fans in the genre. Falsifiability? What's that? What good is a theory if it could be proven false?

Speaking as a science fiction fan, who's spent several years within at least a couple of different science fiction communities, I look at the conspiracy cunts and it's obvious that their understanding of science is even more shallow than that of a mere dillettante like myself. I don't have any formal scientific qualifications, but a fair few of the people I knew in those communities were actively pursuing scientific careers. Some of the most highly regarded works of science fiction literature are in the subgenre of "hard" science fiction, which to varying degrees attempts to work within the limitations that have been uncovered by scientific enquiry.

On the other hand, I don't think most conspiracy types have even touched a book since school.

 

[killer b]

All I was saying was that depression is one thing, not giving a fuck about COVID and putting people at risk over and over due to strange conspiracy beliefs is another. Warning against just writing this phenomenon off as crazy or mental illness when some are just down right anti social.

It's trying to explore why people hold these kinds of views, not writing them off. Where do you go with 'some people are just bad'?

 

[Orang Utan]

I work with a security guard, who for complicated reasons works for the NHS instead of my employer and also works at the big hospitals, including A&E departments. He’s an anti-vaxxer and very daft. He may lose his job because of it, and he’s just been hospitalised with appendicitis and resisting testing and vaccinating during his hospital stay. He’s convinced he’s going to die, but still resisting routine tests. He’s got two kids ffs

 

[Pickman's model]

FFS. Every mental illness is an illness. What's wrong with you people? The above nonsense from Big Moaner about depression belongs on GB News or the Daily Mail comments section. No wonder this board has become such a cesspit if the editor agrees with it.

think you can drop the first two letters of your strapline

 

[existentialist]

I think in a lot of cases it's neither of those things.
It's a weakness of character in the face of harsh uncertainties, which some flee from in favour of a grand plot that they have an important role in thwarting.

And that's it in a nutshell. A lot of these deniers are responding to their powerlessness in the face of events by constructing (or, more likely, clinging to) a narrative in which they are uniquely in possession of superior knowledge...and knowledge is power

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's funny when people say shit like this, because in my own experience a lot of science fiction fans look down on the tinfoil hat brigade. I think you might be confused by the fact that conspiracy theorists nowadays like to incorporate the technological trappings of science fiction into their screeds (nanotechnology seems a favourite, because it can be invisible to the unaided eye and thus could be anywhere, perfect fuel for the paranoid!), while abandoning the pro-scientific ethos exhibited by many creators and thus fans in the genre. Falsifiability? What's that? What good is a theory if it could be proven false?

Speaking as a science fiction fan, who's spent several years within at least a couple of different science fiction communities, I look at the conspiracy cunts and it's obvious that their understanding of science is even more shallow than that of a mere dillettante like myself. I don't have any formal scientific qualifications, but a fair few of the people I knew in those communities were actively pursuing scientific careers. Some of the most highly regarded works of science fiction literature are in the subgenre of "hard" science fiction, which to varying degrees attempts to work within the limitations that have been uncovered by scientific enquiry.

On the other hand, I don't think most conspiracy types have even touched a book since school.

How do we explain the crossover with alien visitation? That’s pretty clearly science fiction.

 

[NoXion]

How do we explain the crossover with alien visitation? That’s pretty clearly science fiction.

Alien visitation (I assume you mean as in UFOs being alien spacecraft, abductees etc) is a modern re-skin of a phenomenon that's much older than science fiction as we know it today. People have always seen weird shit in the sky that they don't know what of, and people have always had experiences of being visited or taken captive by otherworldly beings. It's just that in our modern, technological age, they get interpreted through such a lens.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Alien visitation (I assume you mean as in UFOs being alien spacecraft, abductees etc) is a modern re-skin of a phenomenon that's much older than science fiction as we know it today. People have always seen weird shit in the sky that they don't know what of, and people have always had experiences of being visited or taken captive by otherworldly beings. It's just that in our modern, technological age, they get interpreted through such a lens.

And what about the shape shifting royals?

 

[Yossarian]

People have always seen weird shit in the sky that they don't know what of, and people have always had experiences of being visited or taken captive by otherworldly beings.

I remember that one legend about a mysterious bright star in the sky guiding travelers to where a woman impregnated by a supernatural being was giving birth.

 

[NoXion]

And what about the shape shifting royals?

Elite monsters, like the classic vampires who are often depicted as being nobility.

 

[2hats]

I remember that one legend about a mysterious bright star in the sky guiding travelers to where a woman impregnated by a supernatural being was giving birth.

Met police helicopter hovering over 11 Downing St?