Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots
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May Kasahara
take me to the feeling
Interesting and grim report on anti-vaxxers targeting children in schools 
www.logically.ai
EXCLUSIVE: Inside Future Z, The Anti-Vax Campaign Targeting Schoolkids
A Logically Investigation has found that a national anti-vax campaign targeting schoolchildren is being coordinated by parents, including a mum from Leeds.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
There's definitely more dedicated conspiracy beliefs at the heart of it - he's previously expressed the belief that the US elections were rigged but the Belarusian ones were fair, and at one point he seemed to be approaching the position that AZ/Pfizer were bad but Sputnik might be alright, which is the purest expression of "this is your brain on RT" that I can imagine. But today he was mostly arguing more reasonable-sounding stuff about there not being enough information on long-term effects and how it should be an individual choice rather than mandatory.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
The last time we discussed it when I mentioned my intention to get the vaccine, he said something like "but it is not mandatory, no?" and I just said "no, it's just about having a sense of responsibility". Which I thought was quite a decent line, but clearly didn't make much of an impression if he subsequently re-wrote the conversation in his head so I was agreeing with him. 
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Sounds like some leftie anti-imperialist conspiracy mishmash. Arguing the AZ/Pfizer aren't OK, but Sputnik is, is definitely a novel position...
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
I mean, that was a while back, he does now have switched to just being against the vaccines which is... I suppose a bit more consistent? On the other hand, the other housemate I was talking to seems to have gone from being vaccine-skeptical but agreeing to get because "the fuckers" won't let him travel without it, to now actually being pro-vaccine, so that's progress I suppose.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Sounds like a handy way to save face...
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Sounds like a handy way to save face...
At this point I'm willing to let them have it. If certain people have to come up with tortured justifications to themselves in order to do the right thing, then so be it. I am so fucking tired.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
In fairness, I think he has genuinely come round - in discussions with the anti-vax housemate, I tend to go for the much more neutral "no, I cannot guarantee that there's no long-term effects and I can't 100% guarantee that people who've been vaccinated won't catch Covid, but I think the odds are much better doing it this way than just going through life hoping I never get it" approach, whereas my other housemate is now much more willing to get into a more animated "so, you think every single government on earth is secretly working together on this, how exactly does that work eh?" approach.Sounds like a handy way to save face...
On a possibly-related note, a few months back my house had a very interesting debate about the existence of the sunken city of Atlantis - I bet you can't guess which of my housemates was convinced that it exists as a real physical place.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Anecdata, but probably not entirely irrelevant: the guy who's just got vaxxed has been working as a pizza delivery driver all through the pandemic, and personally knows someone in their 30s working in his store who got hospitalised from the virus and needed a respirator; the hardline anti-vaxxer also worked in food service, but got furloughed at the start of the pandemic, has just recently found a new job but definitely had a very long spell in between with not much to do but watch youtube videos.
Flavour
hang the bankers
The latest one I heard has been from two separate friends (who don't know each other or even live in the same country) who have both said they were weighing up whether to get the vaccine, but would prefer NOT to get an mRNA one (e.g. Pfizer or Moderna) because they're "not sure about the long term effects"... these are people who will definitely eventually get vaccinated once it gets in the way of a holiday or big event that requires it, but are just being selfish in the meantime.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Duh, it's where the Illuminati have their secret HQ everyone knows that, the temple is built around the crash site of the Lizard People's spaceship
Supine
Newt Member
I overheard a cracker today in WHSmiths. Two of the staff talking
‘All these doctors go to medical schools and get told what to think’
‘People who work for pharma companies also work in healthcare’
‘Exactly, they are all in it together, we need some balance so we can decide’
‘I went to uni. Research papers were peer reviewed before being released’
‘They should do that in medicine’
‘All these doctors go to medical schools and get told what to think’
‘People who work for pharma companies also work in healthcare’
‘Exactly, they are all in it together, we need some balance so we can decide’
‘I went to uni. Research papers were peer reviewed before being released’
‘They should do that in medicine’
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
I wonder if some of the hardcore "rebel" anti lockdown lot realise they are playing right into the governement (political part of it) exact desires:
re open as fast as possible
re open as fast as possible
my late evening drunk cod psychology job done
l'Otters
.
The ones I’ve encountered are convinced they’re the real resistance, the only thing standing in the way of a total police state. Very brave, much rebellion, so subversive.
Anju
Well-Known Member
Ended up engaging with one of the conspiracy / anti-vaxx people over the weekend. Asking for some links to articles that support their views. They sent a video, some pathologist spouting nonsense being interviewed by Anna Brees. 53 minutes of debunkable waffle. They sent another video of a clip from some US government committee with a guy claiming asymptomatic transmission wasn't possible, referring to a couple of studies. I found the studies and sent the links plus explained why they don't say what the guy on the video claimed they did. Was then sent a bmj study that directly contradicted the no asymptomatic transmission idea. Again explained what the study was saying, that asymptomatic transmission was less of a driver of transmission than first thought. Then they switched to the do your own research thing, which they all seem to do after sending a couple of meaningless context free, source free videos.
Delusion level 10 reply from them.
" considering I've posted quite a few things to back up what I've been saying, it's not within my interest to keep doing so, quite frankly, I would much rather keep on with my study & research, than in here.
I'm sure you are quite capable - though use a search engine such as Duckduckgo, which isn't censored or tracked to get a truer picture of your searches
Have you heard of Dr Mike Yeadon? - perhaps start there
so many people are on their own level of awakening- some have more time than others to research- & others don't ( have time) or research at all & perhaps rely on the mainstream media to tell them.
There is so so much going on both at surface level & also bubbling beneath the surface -
Most of what you see on the top surface is pure theatre- but those who dare to question & scratch beneath the surface, soon find that there is such deepness & evil darkness- it's almost unfathomable! & the mega fabricated web of lies that cover it, plus the mass hypnosis & psychological warfare to add - it's no wonder that some of the people are bowing under pressure!
But there are many others of us that can smell & see the BS - Loud & clear- some see a wall where we see a window!
Join up to telegram if you haven't already - you'll get a truer uncensored picture of what is going on"
Love that they think duckduckgo will save them. No mention of VPN or anything else to hide what you're looking at. Still it's probably best they stay away from adverts. Perhaps we should just direct them all to the dark web.
Delusion level 10 reply from them.
" considering I've posted quite a few things to back up what I've been saying, it's not within my interest to keep doing so, quite frankly, I would much rather keep on with my study & research, than in here.
I'm sure you are quite capable - though use a search engine such as Duckduckgo, which isn't censored or tracked to get a truer picture of your searches
Have you heard of Dr Mike Yeadon? - perhaps start there
so many people are on their own level of awakening- some have more time than others to research- & others don't ( have time) or research at all & perhaps rely on the mainstream media to tell them.
There is so so much going on both at surface level & also bubbling beneath the surface -
Most of what you see on the top surface is pure theatre- but those who dare to question & scratch beneath the surface, soon find that there is such deepness & evil darkness- it's almost unfathomable! & the mega fabricated web of lies that cover it, plus the mass hypnosis & psychological warfare to add - it's no wonder that some of the people are bowing under pressure!
But there are many others of us that can smell & see the BS - Loud & clear- some see a wall where we see a window!
Join up to telegram if you haven't already - you'll get a truer uncensored picture of what is going on"
Love that they think duckduckgo will save them. No mention of VPN or anything else to hide what you're looking at. Still it's probably best they stay away from adverts. Perhaps we should just direct them all to the dark web.
"almost unfathomable" yeah, there's a reason for that
I heard the "they've not done enough long-term research" one. sure, like you a bloke who works in sales in south london has found some new angle on it that the WHO haven't spotted. and of course he said he'd end up getting it when he has to to go on holiday.
also the classic "mainstream media" not reporting stuff, which is quite scary really because it's just leading people down the believeing random posts on facebook/telegram groups instead.
I also saw some hippy tramp abusing people at a covid vaccine centre - scum.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Could you elaborate on this a bit? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
I think there's a strand of anti-lockdown loon who thinks the govt want us to all stay at home forever mwaahaahah (I have heard that one). whereas in fact the tory party if anything is desperate to get everyone out and spending money again asap for the economy - if anything, the science is holding them back.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Standard conspiracy theory evasion and lack of willingness or ability to even try and understand. I find it hard to see where some of that stuff ends and actual delusion starts sometimes.
Anju
Well-Known Member
Definitely delusion for this one. After I pointed out that I had predicted they would post a couple of videos and then suggest I do my own research a couple more videos arrived, Chris Whitty at the start of the Pandemic saying most people will survive (pointed out that this is what MSM has been saying throughout) and some US TV thing with some sleazy looking guy claiming that asymptomatic transmission is used to justify all the covid restrictions but as it's not possible all restrictions should be lifted. Again vaguely refering to 'studies'
This was their last message.
" I do not have to prove myself or indeed waste my time with you -
Carry right on in your bubble of comfort, while you still can
While We will stand on the frontline of this whole shitshow & stand up for all the things that you're turning your back & blind eye too
Blessed be & peace out
I feel a lot safer knowing they're standing on the frontline.
This was their last message.
" I do not have to prove myself or indeed waste my time with you -
Carry right on in your bubble of comfort, while you still can
While We will stand on the frontline of this whole shitshow & stand up for all the things that you're turning your back & blind eye too
Blessed be & peace out
I feel a lot safer knowing they're standing on the frontline.
l'Otters
.
de Pfeffel et al never wanted to introduce lock downs, mask guidance, furlough; they would prefer to just let the virus rip and their only problem with a high death toll is how it would affect their polling. There’s plenty of respectable figures who have been saying it’s increasingly obvious that the underlying policy has been herd immunity all along.
In this light the anti lockdown protestors are essentially furthering this agenda.
toblerone3
Grrrrr
Apologies if this point has been dealt with but what is the justification for all deaths within 28 days of a COVID Diagnosis being counted as a COVID-related death but not all adverse health events within a short space of a COVID Vaccination being counted as a Vaccine-related reaction/death?
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
I think the former was to massage the figures down a bit (cynical) or (more realistic) at least give a consistent measure since people have been dying of the effects almost a year later in some cases, and recording such deaths ‘now’ might be misleading as the event causing death occurred a long time previously. They are separately recording where Covid is mentioned as a cause/contribution to death on death certificate so those numbers still exist.
If effects are suspected of being linked to vaccination they will be noted and doubtless there will be various epidemic studies going on. It would be daft to attribute everything as there’s loads of stuff going around at the moment which is more linked to increased social contact (such as the stomach bug I’m enduring today that I’ve picked up directly or indirectly from school).
elbows
Well-Known Member
And those numbers are much higher than the ones with the shitty 28 day cutoff bullshit. 153,767 deaths if I use this weeks ONS figures for deaths by date of death.
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
Mrs Shoes posted on FB about availability at the vaccination centre she works out.
An anti vaxxer jumped on it and muttered about future "Nuremberg trials "
An anti vaxxer jumped on it and muttered about future "Nuremberg trials "
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Struggling to make sense of what you're after, especially the second bit. Do you mean any health events, or ones related (or possibly related) to the vaccine?
For the first bit have a read of these...
Behind the headlines: Counting COVID-19 deaths – UK Health Security Agency
The official blog of the UK Health Security Agency, providing expert insight on the organisation's work and all aspects of health security
New UK-wide methodology agreed to record COVID-19 deaths
The publication of daily data on coronavirus deaths will resume from today, following a review by Public Health England (PHE) of the methodology used to calculate the figures.
toblerone3
Grrrrr
Struggling to make sense of what you're after, especially the second bit. Do you mean any health events, or ones related (or possibly related) to the vaccine?
For the first bit have a read of these...
Behind the headlines: Counting COVID-19 deaths – UK Health Security Agency
The official blog of the UK Health Security Agency, providing expert insight on the organisation's work and all aspects of health securitypublichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk
New UK-wide methodology agreed to record COVID-19 deaths
The publication of daily data on coronavirus deaths will resume from today, following a review by Public Health England (PHE) of the methodology used to calculate the figures.www.gov.uk
Thank you for the information about COVID death reporting metholodgy. I am not really doubting the methodology myself but its good to know that the definitions are agreed and robust. What i am looking at I suppose is comparing this methodology with the misuse of the 'Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System' where it is stressed that "reports do not imply causality and that any event could have happened by coincidence."
Why is one correlating event (the COVID deaths) supposed to be a good indication (proxy) of causality while the other is not (the 4,863 deaths close in time to a Vaccine being administered).
What is a snappy way of explaining this?
Science | AAAS
www.sciencemag.org
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