Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots

[Storm Fox]

This is the Wikipedia on him, although it from the German Wikipedia and translated.

Robert W. Malone (* 1959 or 1960) [1] is an American virologist, immunologist and molecular biologist.

Malone studied medicine at Northwestern University with an MD, was a postdoctoral fellow in clinical research at Harvard University, and received his residency in pathology from the University of California, Davis . [2] As a graduate student at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla was he, like protein expression in a foreign cell over by in fat globules (one of the main authors and driving force of a study described in the first liposomes are packaged) initiated DNA or RNA can, at that time still in the context of the hopes for gene therapy. This is considered to be the first scientific publication on the basic principles of, for example, RNA vaccines that were successful in the 2020/21 Covid-19 pandemic . [3] [4] Co-authors of the basic paper from 1989 were Philip Felgner and Inder Verma . [5] In a follow-up study, which originally only served to control the transmission by means of liposomes, it was shown for the first time that "naked" unprotected m-RNA, which was injected directly into the muscle cells of mice, can trigger protein expression in cells for a few days . [6] [4]The crucial patents (see list of publications, also involved was Philip Felgner, later head of the Center for Vaccine Development at the University of California, Irvine ) remained with his employing company, which they later sold on. He had moved from the Salk Institute to another employer [7] and left there after three months due to personal differences. [3] Malone himself soon changed the field of research and did not continue to work in this direction. [3]

He currently (2021) lives in Madison (Virginia) and runs his own consulting company.

It seems odd he would release this on a YouTube channel with 6 thousand subscribers and Fox News.

 

[elbows]

I wont be watching it. His role in coming up with some of the underlying tech decades ago doesnt really give him special insight into the issues now.

Its probably typical stuff about the risk-reward balance, which is inevitably different when it comes to younger people. Cant actually do that analysis really thoroughly unless we have greater insight into long covid than currently available.

In a similar way to what we saw with the AZ vaccine and blood clots, this stuff becomes an issue whenever the risk from vaccination is not zero. In the case of the mRNA vaccines, there are recorded incidents of heart inflammation, especially in younger males after 2nd dose. And that sort of thing necessarily informs judgements about risk-reward balance in different age groups.

 

[two sheds]

This is the Wikipedia on him, although it from the German Wikipedia and translated.


It seems odd he would release this on a YouTube channel with 6 thousand subscribers and Fox News.

That's unfair, he was on Tucker Carlson too

I do find it strange that we've not seen gruesome reports of births as described. Seemed alarmist a tad alarmist.

 

[two sheds]

I do want to respond though – it’s on the curtain-twitching Next Door. They’ve deleted one anti-vax post but this one looks harder to deal with. I’m thinking of:

---
I’m a great believer in scientific method rather than appeals to YouTube "do-your-own-research" authorities. If he’s putting out this information on YouTube and conspiraloon sites like Tucker Carlson and Fox News, then I don’t trust what he says without proof. And anyone using this to warn against coronavirus vaccination generally is seriously wrong. mRNA is only used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

Yes there are documented side effects with vaccines. But you really think that nobody will have noticed huge increases in the number of gruesomely deformed babies from the millions of vaccinations? That would need a major conspiracy by researchers, doctors and nurses worldwide. If he has actual data then he should present it in the usual way, in scientific papers that are peer reviewed. Then it can (for example) be compared against the millions of properly documented hospitalizations and deaths from coronavirus.

So over to you: where’s the scientific data justifying this alarmism?

----

 

[IC3D]

London demo is genuinely huge today.

 

[cupid_stunt]

mRNA is only used in the Pfizer vaccine.

And, Moderna.

 

[two sheds]

And, Moderna.

edited, ta

 

[Storm Fox]

He was lead author on a paper published this year in Frontiers in Pharmacology which is according to Google a reputable journal

see Robert W Malone

It's all rather confusing but my and two sheds points remain, why go public though the channels he did. Is it for the money, genuine but misguided concern, or an actual problem.
The way he's done, if it was someone else would be dismissed, but it is involved and seem still be be actively involved in research.

Anyway I have my 2nd jab Thursday and it's not going to stop me.

 

[two sheds]

Interesting, ta. None of them seem to be backing up what he's now saying, though. Nearest I can see is from end Feb last year so before vaccine was rolled out.

Prior studies involving vaccine candidates for FCoV SARS-CoV-1 and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) demonstrate vaccination-induced antibody-dependent enhancement of disease (ADE), including infection of phagocytic antigen presenting cells (APC).

 

[Johnny Doe]

Million person march my arse. I took my kids boating on Regents Canal today. Tube. Passed through Kings Cross at 11 to Paddington and back again about 2. Both way busier on any given footy Saturday with a couple of London teams at home

 

[cupid_stunt]

London demo is genuinely huge today.

Any bigger than the tens of thousands that they seem to attract regularly during good weather?

Doesn't look like it from the live stream, certainly nowhere near the million, that the loons often claim.

 

[Orang Utan]

 

[elbows]

Interesting, ta. None of them seem to be backing up what he's now saying, though. Nearest I can see is from end Feb last year so before vaccine was rolled out.

Here is some general background info on ADEs.

Vaccine Safety: Antibody-dependent Enhancement (ADE) and Vaccines

Immune responses to pathogens involve many cells and proteins of the immune system. Early during an infection, these responses are non-specific, meaning that although they are directed at the pathogen, they are not specific to it. This is called innate immunity.

www.chop.edu

Such things would be on the list of theoretical things to watch out for with pandemic vaccines. Clearly it hasnt been an issue so far, although that doesnt mean I can completely rule out the possibility when it comes to future strains. Also in the theoretical list would be whether any of the vaccines have an effect on our immune responses to other diseases in future. As I've mentioned in the past, I wont be fretting about such things unless evidence emerges at some point that something is happening on that front.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I see the editor's favourite loon is outside Downing Street, playing his 'don't take the vaccine' crap track.

And, I've spotted at least two people with 'unlock - the vaccines are working' placards, which must boil his piss.

 

[IC3D]

Any bigger than the tens of thousands that they seem to attract regularly during good weather?

Doesn't look like it from the live stream, certainly nowhere near the million, that the loons often claim.

I'd say 100s rather than 10s.
Im sure the health sec has bolstered numbers this weekend.

 

[WouldBe]

You've got major problems if your arse is smaller than a needle.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

London demo is genuinely huge today.

on the beeb it says that the XR Kill The Bill demo walked alongside the anti-whatever demo
disappointing really

 

[IC3D]

on the beeb it says that the XR Kill The Bill demo walked alongside the anti-whatever demo
disappointing really

Dwarfed by it more like, felt sorry for them in their masks looking quite vulnerable

 

[l'Otters]

Wonder what happened there.
In the past week or two been seeing discussion of today’s demos & people from XR popped in to say they have nothing at all to do with the anti lockdown ratlicker lot.

 

[Mr Retro]

London demo is genuinely huge today.

I was there. It was absolutely massive. The free Palestine and extinction rebellion people marched together first. Maybe 6 or 8 thousand. Then the freedom march maybe 15 mins later. 10’s & 10’s of thousands. I reckon about 20% anti-vaccine and similar headbanger nutters and 80% to stop the restrictions and mask wearing.

 

[IC3D]

I was there. It was absolutely massive. The free Palestine and extinction rebellion people marched together first. Maybe 6 or 8 thousand. Then the freedom march maybe 15 mins later. 10’s & 10’s of thousands. I reckon about 20% anti-vaccine and similar headbanger nutters and 80% to stop the restrictions and mask wearing.

Makes sense to me. I think having summer holidays, work, socialising fucked up for another summer has tipped people over the edge rather than loon stuff.

 

[two sheds]

Same bloke has posted:

Almost 14,000 dead so far in Europe (official figures) plus 1.5m reported adverse reactions. Death is a “side effect” I am not prepared to entertain especially for my kids who have next to zero chance of dying from the disease.

any thoughts?

 

[two sheds]

As of week 2021-24, 736 553 deaths have been reported in the EU/EEA

The European Respiratory Virus Surveillance Summary (ERVISS)

This interactive dashboard provides a weekly integrated epidemiological summary for influenza, RSV and SARS-CoV-2.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

Plus 160,000 in the UK plus long covid

for a bit of balance.

 

[two sheds]

Sorry to spam this but this one's been referred to, too.

RETRACTED: The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

Background: COVID-19 vaccines have had expedited reviews without sufficient safety data. We wanted to compare risks and benefits. Method: We calculated the number needed to vaccinate (NNTV) from a large Israeli field study to prevent one death. We accessed the Adverse Drug Reactions (ADR)...

www.mdpi.com

Background: COVID-19 vaccines have had expedited reviews without sufficient safety data. We wanted to compare risks and benefits. Method: We calculated the number needed to vaccinate (NNTV) from a large Israeli field study to prevent one death. We accessed the Adverse Drug Reactions (ADR) database of the European Medicines Agency and of the Dutch National Register (lareb.nl) to extract the number of cases reporting severe side effects and the number of cases with fatal side effects. Result: The NNTV is between 200–700 to prevent one case of COVID-19 for the mRNA vaccine marketed by Pfizer, while the NNTV to prevent one death is between 9000 and 50,000 (95% confidence interval), with 16,000 as a point estimate. The number of cases experiencing adverse reactions has been reported to be 700 per 100,000 vaccinations. Currently, we see 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations, and the number of fatal side effects is at 4.11/100,000 vaccinations. For three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination. Conclusions: This lack of clear benefit should cause governments to rethink their vaccination policy.

 

[2hats]

Death is a 'side effect' of living: if you had corralled together several million European 90+ year olds in January 2019, how many of them would you have found to be dead by June 2019?

For some perspective - the UK alone (ONS):

Approximately half a million people die in England each year, two-thirds of whom are aged 75 years of age and older.

In the UK vaccine uptake in 75+ is >90% (PHE) and there are in excess of 5.5 million in that cohort (ONS). So that's 4.9 million jabbed of which well in excess of 100,000 would have been expected to have died in the subsequent six months of other (pre-COVID) causes. And that's not even counting the under 75's who would have died (of non-COVID/non-vaccination causes) over the same period.

Adverse reaction and related fatality numbers are far, far lower than suggested (as of 3 June, from >133 million doses in the EU: 354,177 adverse events and 100 deaths).

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Same bloke has posted:



any thoughts?

Coronavirus vaccine - weekly summary of Yellow Card reporting
scroll down to "events with fatal outcome" for UK figures, then read the conclusions just below there.
But it sounds like someone already made that bloke's mind already.

 

[gentlegreen]

Several maskless people in Tesco today giving off edgy vibes ... but it's unusual for me to be shopping there on a Sunday ...

 

[spitfire]

Interesting thread here on the SOS crowd. I had a look at one of the live vids earlier and there was no evidence of anyone wearing masks.

 

[miss direct]

Actually quite upset to see that a friend of mine (who I consider very intelligent and pleasant) is sharing stuff about the London protests and media silence and anti vaccine passports. She's Turkish and is drawing parallels with state run media silence when there were big anti government protests there. Feel so disappointed.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Thread from the rave protest, flecked with anti-vax and fellow travellers